PoppaTot Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Forgive me if I am being edgy and douchey today but this statement... let me explain. It has been said even to the developers in the past - "why are you balancing the game, why do you care how I play?"/"why force me" - when they squash an exploit (not saying that nerd poling is one, let's not go into that at all). But nevermind the devs... What are we, users, doing in this forum? Suggesting, theorizing, discussing. A simple user like me pondering about what impact nerd poling has on gameplay or saying his piece because he loves the game and feels, from his point of view, that some things are wasted, etc, doesn't make him an over-the-internet obsessive sociopath that is annoyed by another person's playstyle because he has some kind of complex... right? (And it can only be an opinion, I can't exactly impose anything lucky for you maggots). Like the new Zeds of 7D... I can dig that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Its a simple answer 90% of gametime i have frames on my belt. Means nerdpoling IS a very important part of the game. If they would remove the ability to nerdpole they would remove playermade scyscrappers from the game Against zombies i would use flagstone blocks or Barbwire To get on roofs flagstone blocks or Ladders (btw to reduce the nerdpoling on roof they need a multidim block 1x1 x3) as plates and then they could make a paneling on the pois that prevent you to nerdpole in a range of 3 (like the letters do right now @ for example the new pawg if you nerpole up direct at the wall ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Not shocked at all. Of course it's not scarce. Where did I say that you won't always be able to craft ladders? Nowhere. I just pointed out they involve time and cost. If you just wanted to point out that it takes time and resources to create a leader, you could have written it the same way instead of using huge percentages. Maybe then I could have taken your argument seriously. Are they mutually-exclusive situations? No. So looting a POI can turn into a emergency situation - except with nerd poling it usually can't. And why would it be different if I build ladders on the outside and then get to the top ? The result is the same. Accordingly your argumentation, which is directed only against nerdpoling, is inconsistent. Besides, it is not without danger to go directly to the roof. Especially in large buildings you have especially hard opponents on the roof and often also spikes and mines. Have a look at the roof of the hotel in Perishton on the Navezgane map. Even with level 1 you can expect Ferale zombies and radioactive zombies. Doesn't matter what I like or what I don't. I am just discussing about something, no assumptions are needed. You consider one of the oldest mechanics in the game used by many to be superfluous and imply that it should be removed from the game. It is only natural to make assumptions about the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Btw, irrelevant, but why hasn't nerd poling become impossible. Do we really need nerd poling? I don't think we do. We definitely don't. A vital aspect of the game for builders. If you didn't know that already, you are no serious builder. Also it is the only way to get vehicles back when use of Gyrocopter has caused them to teleport to max ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 If you just wanted to point out that it takes time and resources to create a leader, you could have written it the same way instead of using huge percentages. Maybe then I could have taken your argument seriously. What's there to take or not to take seriously? It's in the game. As for the percentage, I just misremembered the cost. Like I said before though, the cost doesn't even matter because compared to the ladder, frames are free and you only have to craft them once. And why would it be different if I build ladders on the outside and then get to the top ? The result is the same. Accordingly your argumentation, which is directed only against nerdpoling, is inconsistent. The result is the same yes, Sherlock. You get on the building on both occasions, who would have thought. What I am pointing out are the differences in the way you do it: -Your words : " if you are chased by a zombie bear or dogs you are glad if you can save yourself quickly". The ladder on the other hand is not as quick and can't be used anywhere. Are you really saying now that trying to enter/scale a POI is chill and speed does not matter if something sees you? Besides zombies path on ladders and they do attack hatches. -The ladder as mentioned earlier costs resources and time because you can't pick it up and have to craft it every time (and yes I know you have a lot of wood with your tree farm and all) but frames cost nothing. So, obviously, they are nothing alike risk and cost-wise. Besides, it is not without danger to go directly to the roof. Especially in large buildings you have especially hard opponents on the roof and often also spikes and mines. Have a look at the roof of the hotel in Perishton on the Navezgane map. Even with level 1 you can expect Ferale zombies and radioactive zombies. What happens or how difficult is the roof is irrelevant. We are talking about the way you get there. Or are you trying to say something along the lines of "the roof itself is hard enough so nerd poling is fine"? You may be right if that is what you are trying to say, but it's not what we are talking about here. You consider one of the oldest mechanics in the game used by many to be superfluous and imply that it should be removed from the game. It is only natural to make assumptions about the reason. Feel free to make assumptions then. A vital aspect of the game for builders. If you didn't know that already, you are no serious builder. Also it is the only way to get vehicles back when use of Gyrocopter has caused them to teleport to max ceiling. So tell a "non-serious builder" - what can you do with nerd poling, that you can't do with ladders + scaffolding? You do understand that vehicles bugging out to max ceiling is not a pemanent game mechanic, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I brought up nerdpoling to the devs some time ago. They were against removing it outright. However, Gazz came up with an alternative. Gazz’s Solution was to give frame blocks the ladder ability so that zeds can follow you on up. I quite like the idea and it would make them even more useful for building. This was just idle chatter so not a promise of the future. Gossip. Seems it could be an interesting mod if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I brought up nerdpoling to the devs some time ago. They were against removing it outright. However, Gazz came up with an alternative. Gazz’s Solution was to give frame blocks the ladder ability so that zeds can follow you on up. I quite like the idea and it would make them even more useful for building. This was just idle chatter so not a promise of the future. Gossip, if you will. Seems it could be an interesting mod if nothing else. Not sure if this is a good idea. Could be easily exploitable. Have them climb a stack of wood frames, remove or destroy the first frame you placed and they'll all come tumbling down with fall damage if high enough. Have several of these stacks and you'll be able to kill lots of zombies very quickly without any effort other than luring them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Sounds like a nice idea. Sadly it looks that a pure XML edit cant solve that (found only the class definition as ladder, added it to the flfagstone and it did not work) Without tests hard to say but i guess Frames and bars could be used as (slower?) ladders too sounds like something i would like to test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Fall damage ain’t what it used to be and if you are in a position to remove the lowest block they are all headed your direction quickly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Not sure if this is a good idea. Could be easily exploitable. Have them climb a stack of wood frames, remove or destroy the first frame you placed and they'll all come tumbling down with fall damage if high enough. Have several of these stacks and you'll be able to kill lots of zombies very quickly without any effort other than luring them. Sounds easyer as it will be And could be done with wood ladders too. There is no real difference between pickup a frame and use your high damage steel axe on a wood ladder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Fall damage ain’t what it used to be and if you are in a position to remove the lowest block they are all headed your direction quickly.... Yeah fall damage isn't what is used to be so that's why we place many of those stacks. They're programmed to follow you so they'll do the same thing everytime. Each fall reduces their HPs so have them fall enough times and they'll eventually die. As for the second part. No, there are plenty of ways around it. You can place the stack next to a building with 1 block in between the two. Attach a wooden frame next to heighest block so there is a path from the highest block to you and the building. With the current AI, climbing up the stack would be easier than going through the building. When you're off the stack you can destroy the very first wodden frame by using some projectile weapon like a rocket launcher, rifle, pistol, etc. Or you can also place dynamite or a gas barrel next to it and shoot those. The explosion will destroy the first frame you placed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 As for the second part. No, there are plenty of ways around it. You can place the stack next to a building with 1 block in between the two. Attach a wooden frame next to heighest block so there is a path from the highest block to you and the building. With the current AI, climbing up the stack would be easier than going through the building. When you're off the stack you can destroy the very first wodden frame by using some projectile weapon like a rocket launcher, rifle, pistol, etc. Or you can also place dynamite or a gas barrel next to it and shoot those. The explosion will destroy the first frame you placed. That's what you call an "easy exploit"? Seems like a lot of work to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 That's what you call an "easy exploit"? Seems like a lot of work to me. Placing a bunch of frames down, climbing the frame stack and then shooting a gas barrel doesn't seem like a lot of work to me. But hey we all have different ideas of how much work is 'a lot of work'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 It's a lot of work for a supposed "easy exploit," not a lot of work in an absolute sense. Furthermore, why not just blow up the zombies with the gas barrel instead of having the frame stack in the equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPanda0421 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 It's a lot of work for a supposed "easy exploit," not a lot of work in an absolute sense. Furthermore, why not just blow up the zombies with the gas barrel instead of having the frame stack in the equation? Looks like you didn't read the previous posts! We were discussing how we can exploit the zombies if they were allowed to climb wooden frames. The main discussion was about not removing nerdpoling altogether but possibly the idea of adding ability for zombies to climb wooden frames. The keywords are 'Wooden Frames'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I guess what we really need a thread "Exploit, how intelligent a player is allowed to act until someone Screams "EXLOIT"" Is it allowed to put Cheese into a mousetrap ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I wouldn't call that an exploit at all. It is reasonable defending yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullpoker Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Try having a girlfriend and playing a video game for 5 minutes. Then you will know what punishing means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Try having a girlfriend... You just lost 3/4 of the readership... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I brought up nerdpoling to the devs some time ago. They were against removing it outright. However, Gazz came up with an alternative. Gazz’s Solution was to give frame blocks the ladder ability so that zeds can follow you on up. I quite like the idea and it would make them even more useful for building. This was just idle chatter so not a promise of the future. Gossip. Seems it could be an interesting mod if nothing else. Doesn't sound like a bad idea at all... And yes it would make them even more convenient when building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMPlayin Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 You just lost 3/4 of the readership... That is harsh. I have a girlfriend. My wife is mad about it but what are you gonna do?! I kid, of course. But as far as 7DTD goes, my wife and I regularly play together on a local network game but she's seen Alpha 17 and isn't ready to make the jump yet. Still on 16.4. A lot of what's been said in this thread is part of the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 So tell a "non-serious builder" - what can you do with nerd poling, that you can't do with ladders + scaffolding? Nerd poling *IS* scaffolding, just temporary, quicker and more efficient. Yes you could do it with ladders but would take much longer and be much more annoying. Why would screw builders in that way by removing it? You do understand that vehicles bugging out to max ceiling is not a pemanent game mechanic, yes? lmao. You're so cute.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Looks like you didn't read the previous posts! We were discussing how we can exploit the zombies if they were allowed to climb wooden frames. The main discussion was about not removing nerdpoling altogether but possibly the idea of adding ability for zombies to climb wooden frames. The keywords are 'Wooden Frames'... Oh. My. God. Just so you know, I read every ♥♥♥♥ing word of every ♥♥♥♥ing post in the threads in which I post. It's exhausting reading that much, especially because of all the idiocy that they contain. Here is my point: If you have to create a Rube Goldberg machine to make it an exploit, then it isn't an exploit.* You just didn't like Roland's point that it isn't easily exploitable, so you tried to come up with a response to prove yourself right. Edit: The "Rube Goldberg machine" description of shooting a gas barrel at the base of a frame stack was an exaggeration. I don't want you to get hung up on that and somehow think that my point is invalid because I exaggerated. *The difference with the current AI is that it is fun to create RG machines to mess with the AI; but a simple ramp leading to a nerdpole will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestInPieces Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Nerd poling *IS* scaffolding, just temporary, quicker and more efficient. scaffolding is a temporary structure on the outside of a building, made of wooden planks and metal poles, used by workmen while building, repairing, or cleaning the building Making 1 block towers to reach something at a certain height and picking them up again, then doing the same for each side or every few horizontal meters, can barely be considered scaffolding. But for the sake of argument let's just say it is a form of scaffolding. Surely it is very practical at the time, but if you actually plan your scaffolding (1 vertical pathway and a few horizontal at different levels that stay there until your structure is complete), constructing and editing your builds can become even easier especially when it comes to very large structures. I used to do this all the time in Minecraft where it was much more impractical to create 1 block towers because you had to destroy them afterwards, so it has become a habit. Definitely not having any problems building this way in 7DTD and I can't see why anyone would have any. But nevermind that. Yes you could do it with ladders but would take much longer and be much more annoying So you are verifying what I said above - that there is nothing you can do with nerd poling, that you can't do with ladders. It's just a matter of convenience (and not having to plan). lmao. You're so cute.... Stop it, you'll make me blush.. The thing is I don't consider nerd poling harmful to the game when it comes to building. Convenience is great. I only consider it harmful when it comes to exploring/gameplay because it is a cheap way to avoid dangers as demonstrated above and a cheap way to almost instantly reach skyscraper roofs (which is silly by all accounts and akin to vertical flight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 When we begin to argue for details in each post, it's a sign that it's time for the next alpha to be released... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.