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My constructive comments on A17


Cirion

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First, to start off and put a positive spin on the thread, I just want to extend appreciation for the latest patch and the work that no doubt went into it. In particular I appreciate the new vehicles, some aspects of the perk system, addition of quests and new POI's.

 

I feel like a lot of my comments have some merit and have fallen under the radar posting in other peoples' threads, so I decided to make my own thread. This will also give me the chance to bring up some other random comments I've been thinking of. To keep this as constructive as possible I'll try to be objective as much as I can here.

 

1. Gun parts: Would like to see these return, but in a different fashion than A16. Keep gun drops as they are, but let us dissemble them and this would be a way like before, to get higher quality guns quicker. If people dislike this mini-game, they can just opt out of it and just find or craft better ones like we already are in A17.

 

2. Nailgun: Is it just me or does it seem a lot slower now. Upgrading blocks is really tedious now. I don't see a huge advantage of nailgun over claw hammer anymore. Can we bring back the uber fast upgrading that nailgun used to have?

 

3. Rocket launcher: way too weak. Also, explosive perks seem broken and don't work for me. Does not cripple like it says it should. Increase damage dramatically and if necessary, reduce ammo frequency to compensate.

 

4. Any chance of a "Build in a line" or "Build in an area" for blocks? It's quite tedious currently to lay down a large foundation for a structure if you want to build fairly big or even just moderate sized.

 

5. Magazines: honestly mostly useless. To be quite frank I have used like maybe one my entire time in A17 so far. Because skillpoints are at a premium, maybe we can just have the magazine permanently increase a stat? If that seems overpowered, I have no objections to make them a little bit of a rare drop then.

 

6. PERKS. This is a point of contention as we all know, but I'm going to try to broach this difficult subject with a SOLUTION rather than just complain. I think some skills make more sense to use A16's system, and others to use 17. Let me try to explain.

 

- SPECIALIZED skills should probably use A17's system. Examples: Ability to craft certain things like forge, chemistry station, workbench, vehicles. I think this way because most of us realized crafting 1000 stone axes to bring crafting skill up was ridiculous and tedious. Headshot damage would be specialized also.

 

Basically, it's my opinion that any skill that would not otherwise level up to max through a reasonable gameplay through INCIDENTAL means, should be using A17's system. By incidental, I mean through normal gameplay without focusing on grinding a specific skill / going out of your way to do so (Ie, crafting 1000 stone axes).

 

- GENERALIZED skills should probably use A16's system. Examples could include things like Athletics. This is a prime example of an INCIDENTAL skill because you're always running, jumping, no need to grind it. Another example is Melee damage or Ranged weapon damage. Use your weapon or gun more - more levels. I do not feel like ARMOR damage reduction should be generalized like it was before, so A17's system feels better for that. I say that because you should not be TRYING to get hit to bring you damage tolerance higher. Thus, A17 for that. Sneaking skill could probably be turned into an incidental skill as well.

 

7. RWG. It's broken currently. From what I read, dev's are currently working it, so I'm not gonna put too much emphasis on this part.

 

8. Level gating - we need to get rid of it. It serves no purpose IMO. It also eliminates the desire for players to "specialize", which is a fun part of teaming up with other players. No point to specialize if you gotta wait for level X to get something anyway even with the skill points for it.

 

9. I think Mining (block damage) and melee (entity damage) leveling should be separate probably. And both should probably be generalized (see #6) because you're gonna be meleeing or mining a lot - making it an incidental level up.

 

Acknowledgments:

 

From the threads I have read here so far, #1 and #5/6 is already a common theme. And I believe, a dev already admitted that #5 is currently being addressed and has been acknowledged. #8 seems to be well known also and probably being looked into as well. Same with #7.

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Cirion, I've seen a couple of your posts and agreed wholeheartedly with all of them. I like your attitude of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater because there are great things about A17, and no reason to just do a straight revert to A16.4. I'm all for having the best of both worlds.

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Yes, I have noticed a propensity of extremism (Like throwing out A17 and going back to A16 is just being dramatic) that I think we should shy away from.

 

I do not feel like the A16 system was perfect, nor do I feel like the A17 system is perfect. Yet I think A16 did some things better than A17, and A17 did some things better than A16 too.

 

I think the trick is to try to avoid thinking of things in black and white mannerisms. It doesn't HAVE to be one extreme or the other. That may be the easiest solution, but it's rarely the best solution.

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Sure, that could be one way to do it, I'd be on board with that.

 

My only thing with that is it may be better to streamline it a little. There are way too many perks, you'd clutter yourself with soooo many pages, so maybe something like this

 

You can find intelligence pages, perception pages, strength pages, fortitude pages etc. If you got 5 strength pages you could level any of the sub-strength skills for example mining 69'er. With 5 fortitude papers you could raise healing factor, or metabolism, etc.

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Maybe the magazines could be changed to be pages from the magazine and you would have to craft five pages together to make a magazine that would increase your intelligence attribute permanently. Literary gun parts...

 

Then I'd make magazines the only way to increase stats, so that your efforts at looting is what advanced your character.

 

If we can't have "learn by doing", at least we could use your suggestion there to mod in a "learn by looting" system. ;-)

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Sure, that could be one way to do it, I'd be on board with that.

 

My only thing with that is it may be better to streamline it a little. There are way too many perks, you'd clutter yourself with soooo many pages, so maybe something like this

 

You can find intelligence pages, perception pages, strength pages, fortitude pages etc. If you got 5 strength pages you could level any of the sub-strength skills for example mining 69'er. With 5 fortitude papers you could raise healing factor, or metabolism, etc.

 

I was mostly just thinking intelligence as that fits better with reading a "how to" magazine. The rest of the attributes would level up by points as per normal.

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I used to not really find a use for magz but i saved them all in a box none the less and ive used alot of them for good uses.

 

- Crafting a 4x4 and saving the point for something else, never really need to use a point there again in grease monkey

- crafting steel stuff and ak and selling them on keeping a spare, anothe rpoint saved

- better barter really useful

- daring adventurer too

-master chef, cooked a ton of the next tier stuff after being prepared with items

 

I think their best use is when i want say a 5/5 perk but am only 9/10 in the tree i use it to give 10/10 and get the 5/5 without having to spend the huge 5skill points ( mostly intellect coz i have 6 rated gear already)

 

theyre mostly about point saving for me and have done well

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I used to not really find a use for magz but i saved them all in a box none the less and ive used alot of them for good uses.

 

- Crafting a 4x4 and saving the point for something else, never really need to use a point there again in grease monkey

- crafting steel stuff and ak and selling them on keeping a spare, anothe rpoint saved

- better barter really useful

- daring adventurer too

-master chef, cooked a ton of the next tier stuff after being prepared with items

 

I think their best use is when i want say a 5/5 perk but am only 9/10 in the tree i use it to give 10/10 and get the 5/5 without having to spend the huge 5skill points ( mostly intellect coz i have 6 rated gear already)

 

theyre mostly about point saving for me and have done well

 

Wouldn't your 5/5 skill effectively drop back down to 4/5 after the 30 minutes are up doing that though? Same thing happens to me with the death penalty and if it drops your main stat down does it not? I could have sworn I tried something like that and it didn't work how I wanted to.

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Wouldn't your 5/5 skill effectively drop back down to 4/5 after the 30 minutes are up doing that though? Same thing happens to me with the death penalty and if it drops your main stat down does it not? I could have sworn I tried something like that and it didn't work how I wanted to.

 

You don't need the perk anymore after the time is up. You get the perk to build the forge, you build it. don't need it anymore for example. The forge don't go away after the timer.

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Wouldn't your 5/5 skill effectively drop back down to 4/5 after the 30 minutes are up doing that though? Same thing happens to me with the death penalty and if it drops your main stat down does it not? I could have sworn I tried something like that and it didn't work how I wanted to.

 

Point is you prepare and mass craft the stuff for it so you never have to perk into it again or until alot later

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