Trader and economy balance thread

[madmole]

Hey guys and gals, I am working on making traders and the economy as good as possible and need your input. My goals are:

 

1.) Support all play styles, so non crafters can get what they need.

For this let me know if there are any items or resources sorely missing from trader inventory.

 

2.) Make it possible to make a living role playing.

Whether it be a lumberjack, a rock miner, a blacksmith, hunter, crafter selling his goods, scavenger selling things, I think you should be able to make a modest living. I'd want to know what trades are under powered and which ones are overpowered or not even supported.

 

3.) Perk balance. Are the trading perks too good? I typically get by without them so maybe they are OP?

[HerrKingsley]

Interesting idea.

First thing that comes to mind is price difference between traders.

In most games where you trade, selling and buying from diffrent traders is very common.

 

Second thing that comes to mind is. Roleplaying as for example a lumberjack will probably be hard to balance. Due to the nature of game stage.

Since you will have a modest living you won't probably be able to afford the expensive defence you need to survive late bm's.

But if you could rent a night at the trader it might work.

[Armor9]

Hey guys and gals, I am working on making traders and the economy as good as possible and need your input. My goals are:

 

1.) Support all play styles, so non crafters can get what they need.

For this let me know if there are any items or resources sorely missing from trader inventory.

 

2.) Make it possible to make a living role playing.

Whether it be a lumberjack, a rock miner, a blacksmith, hunter, crafter selling his goods, scavenger selling things, I think you should be able to make a modest living. I'd want to know what trades are under powered and which ones are overpowered or not even supported.

 

3.) Perk balance. Are the trading perks too good? I typically get by without them so maybe they are OP?

 

Something that is SORELY missing is "Bottle of Acid." I cannot find them anywhere and we need them to make tires.

[Jugginator]

I'll mess with a few things and report back, but on hand, I can definitely attest to the limit traders will buy stuff from you sometimes. Namely for crafting weapons/guns/armor. I know the limit is there for balance reasons, but I think the (I think it's 3) 3 per item limit kinda kills it and makes it not entirely worth the trip to them.

 

I suggest, perhaps, instead of limiting the quantity per restock, give the traders a set amount of coins they have per reset. Kinda like how Morrowind/etc NPCs have a certain amount of coins. I find it silly how I can only sell a certain amount of 'x' item, then get refused to sell them more even after spending 10k on things. On second thought, I suppose this can be exploitable due to XP, so why not remove that option entirely (receiving XP); it's not entirely needed, and gaining the ability to, say, sell a few guns to them then buy a high-priced item - allowing us to sell more things back and buy something else.

[madmole]

Interesting idea.

First thing that comes to mind is price difference between traders.

In most games where you trade, selling and buying from diffrent traders is very common.

 

Second thing that comes to mind is. Roleplaying as for example a lumberjack will probably be hard to balance. Due to the nature of game stage.

Since you will have a modest living you won't probably be able to afford the expensive defence you need to survive late bm's.

But if you could rent a night at the trader it might work.

 

Are you saying the same goods at a different trader have a difference in price?

 

With the upcoming blood moon optoins (every day,3,7,10,14,30,random, never) a person can role play more freely and aren't forced into horde night inevitable destruction. So being a rogue traveler with just a few shacks to stay in here and there should be viable, or just a guy with a basic brick fort should be able to withstand a few wandering hordes or heat map hordes. Of course you can scavenge concrete mix now so a small concrete base is definitely doable early game now.

[madmole]

Something that is SORELY missing is "Bottle of Acid." I cannot find them anywhere and we need them to make tires.

 

Good point, I'll add that in.

[Guppycur]

I know it sounds counter intuitive, but having traders specialize in a type of product was pretty successful in my mod. Food trader, blacksmith, general goods, etc...

 

This not only limited the op-ness of finding a trader, but allowed consistent purchasing to encourage real travel and exploration.

 

I just wish there had been a way to limit what they purchased back (by category).

[HerrKingsley]

Are you saying the same goods at a different trader have a difference in price?

 

With the upcoming blood moon optoins (every day,3,7,10,14,30,random, never) a person can role play more freely and aren't forced into horde night inevitable destruction. So being a rogue traveler with just a few shacks to stay in here and there should be viable, or just a guy with a basic brick fort should be able to withstand a few wandering hordes or heat map hordes. Of course you can scavenge concrete mix now so a small concrete base is definitely doable early game now.

 

 

Oooh blood moon options!! That opens a lot of diffrent playstyles and opportunities. I like what I hear a lot!

 

Yes. Diffrent traders have diffrent prices. In kenshin you see a how much of the reference price the trader gives. Like 120% or 80%. Its a nice way to inform the player a objects trade value.

 

Traders could also be specialized in different fields (give more for special goods)

Like Joel specializes in weapons and materials that are used for that.

Bob in buildings

And Jen in medical and armor.

 

Meaning you could buy a gun cheap at Bob and sell it for a profit at Joel.

[lord_ahriman]

I don't think perks are OP, because despite abundant loot you get to a point (and fast) that looting a POI will not result in reward, but into a modest profit. So you really need to maximize this profit in traders.

 

About goods, should be very rare, but you could add beakers. Also, every rotation (all traders) should always guarantee 7.62mm ammo. I know rng is a bitch, but in my current save (day 62) already got 3 rotations without a single 7.62mm on sale and now mostly is steel version.

[Tin]

Different traders have different goods they specialize in. Give ppl a reason to go and actively find them all.

• 1 trader has 80% mostly food/med supplies and 20% general goods.
  
• 1 trader has 80% mostly ammo and guns, 20% general.
  
• 1 trader has 80% mostly building supplies, 20% general.
  
• 1 trader has 80% clothing/armor goods, 20% general.
  
• 1 trader IS a general goods trader and has equal amounts available for everything.
  

 

All traders have a quest to travel to the other trader locations like:

• The general goods trader has a quest to go to the Foodie trader.
  
• The foodie trader has a quest to go to the building supply trader.
  
• The building supply trader has a quest to go to the Armor trader.
  
• The armor trader has a quest to go to the weapon/ammo trader.
  
• The weapon/ammo trader has a quest to go to the general goods trader.
  

 

heh, kinda like gup said and it has a built in balance just by goods available that each shop mostly deals in.

[Royal Deluxe]

Vending machines

* add again more coffee to the vendingmachines

* Small ammounts of Bandages

* Small amounts of Painkillers

* Small amounts of ammo (maybe)

* More cans

* Less fresh food

 

Thats how i would fill my vending machines as a trader in the 7D2D world

(my mod 3 pictures how my my Vending machines are filled https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?103985-Vanilla-modlet-collection&p=923858&viewfull=1#post923858

 

Trader

Trader are too much RNG dependent

In one game you have a Q4 Auger on day 1 by a trader or a Q5 by loot.

And next game the first auger you see is at level 100 the Q6 auger you produced yourself.

 

In my opinion the Perk buff is far too strong. Maybe rise the Basis value to that what you have now at Perk 2/5. And distribute the Value you have now at 3-4 of 5 to 1-5 of 5

 

AMMO

Trader need more ammo

FAR MORE ammo

Did i mention AMMO ?

There is only one reason to visit traders after day 49 and this is AMMO

A M M O (can i make the text blinking ?)

 

No really, if you want enough ammo in the game you can

Spend 4/7 days of the week by harvesting boulders

or

Move too all traders and Nitpick loot at 100% lootabundance

or

Play on 200% Loot and still Nitpick the best lootcrates

 

If you play normal you never will have enough ammo

 

Even with Daylie restocking traders it can be problematic (Still testplay)

[Aurelius]

Suggestion:

 

Add a "Special Order" capability, so that you can request a particular item for the trader to get in stock when the next reset occurs. You could make the special order item cost some multiple of the normal price (eg 3x) to represent the extra effort required to bring in the order.

 

-A

[Damocles]

Remove the vending machines in POIs. They are really breaking immersion, and go against the "break and take all you want" mechanic.

The traders themself are more plausible, as they would theoretically protect their property. (would be good if they had NPC guards or turrets of some kind)

 

Vendors should also have a "currently demanded" sections. Some materials or items for example that they want and pay over the usual price.

The player could specifically produce those to satisfy this traders demand.

 

Other items should only be bought for a few items at max. Such that the traders demand for an item type fills up like

"3/6 flashlights" meaning that the trader already has 3, and only wants 3 more flashlights max. (until the stock is cleared after 2 weeks or so).

 

High level resource items like steel should always be available in some amount. This allows the game to hold of the players leveling up to making it themself.

The trader could also charge for using the forges and workbenches for that day. (but on the other hand always having one).

[Royal Deluxe]

Remove the vending machines in POIs. ...

Or maybe make a poi that is only for that like a bus stop

 

But yes, a vending machine fresh restocked in a Zombie infested basement ... is not immersive.

[Thecolours]

Beakers are sorely needed.

 

Also, it would be nice to sell items at vending machines even the amount you could sell had a cap.

[Gazz]

I know it sounds counter intuitive, but having traders specialize in a type of product was pretty successful in my mod. Food trader, blacksmith, general goods, etc...

We had that in the first editions of traders but then got rid of it because we didn't have the time to flesh it out properly.

[Junuxx]

Perk balance: Fine for buying. Prices go like (these numbers are an approximation) 100,90,80,70,60,50, which is reasonable, but super duper crazy OP for selling Prices go 10,20,30,40,50,60; each level multiplying the no-perk sale price.

 

In general, there is too much of a discrepancy between the prices of items with and without quality levels. Once you can craft level >3 stuff, almost nothing without a quality level is worth considering for profitability.

 

The trader is selling raw meat too cheaply. 2 per unit or something, almost free compared to other food ingredients.

 

Some common supplies like food or cement are sold in too large quantities, removing the challenge in this area. Prices are good though.

 

Some more specific items are too rare. It's not fun to have to go all around the map to visit all traders each day, hoping for bullets or a tool and die set.

[Kattla]

Nonecraftable decorative blocks in larger quantities are something i miss a lot from the

traders. Once i am set up, AKA late game, that is what i am mostly looking for. I mean like

pipes and other stuff which is mostly usable for decorations.

 

Solar cells are way to pricy. Could have their price dropped by 3/4 at least.

I am not totally against traders selling some fresh food, but vending machines.. nah, canned

food ok, fresh food not so ok (vending machines). MAybe add shamwhiches to vending machines,

the moldy and green ones.

[RipClaw]

Someone in another thread has come up with the idea of introducing a new type of quest where you have to deliver supplies to another trader. This way you could find new traders which would be especially useful on a random generated map.

[OzHawkeye]

Someone in another thread has come up with the idea of introducing a new type of quest where you have to deliver supplies to another trader. This way you could find new traders which would be especially useful on a random generated map.

 

Definitely would be handy. I don't think I've ever found all the traders in a map, or indeed, more than 2 or 3 of them.

 

I also like the idea of trader specialisation for a boost to exploration. If I know "trader x" will buy all my farm produce, but others won't, then I've got a very good reason to shlep out to "trader x" no matter how far away he/she is.

[Hek Harris]

Solo, I'm richer than Cresus, so it's hard to give any advice other than "raise the prices!"

 

Quests pay too much. I think prices should be indexed to the player's reputation with the merchant. And the reputation should depend on successful quests (and their level) or quests that are not successful or canceled (the reputation should drastically fall in this case).

 

I would also like merchants to offer more decorative items, anything that is not craftable.

 

I would prefer that vending machines disappear, but hey, it's personal: I find these things counter-immersive and totally inappropriate in a devastated world.

 

And as has been suggested, I would much prefer specialized dealers, which would require to look for them: a gunsmith, a grocer, a doctor, a furniture merchant, etc.

 

 

edit : and when we're infected or sick, they should refuse to trade (or shoot at sight ^^)

[fazi]

In my opinion, traders should always be the second option.You spent so much time making the A17 harder, and now, i just buy tons of meat from a wending machine ... Everything has to have a price, and be available at the trader, but prices has to be high, so you only chose to buy food for example, if you have no other choice.Otherwise, the whole new things are useless .What is the point of having the new food/drink thing if i can just sell some cloth fragments i can easily get and buy all the food i need for weeks?I find like 15 meat in a wending machine, took down a tent, sold the cloth and brought the meat on day one.First night i was eating bacon and eggs and you call it survival game:P

I agree, all specialization has to be able to use the trader, but for example if i'm a miner , force me craft something from what i mine and sell it, and so on.Make the trader buy vehicles, ammo, cooked food, steel blocks, hard to get things, for each specialization.

One of the things i buy from the trader is glue/duct tape, i used to have tons of bones in A16 and craft glue, then duct tape.But then, why is the trader selling glue, and not bones?

[Odetta]

Hey guys and gals, I am working on making traders and the economy as good as possible and need your input. My goals are:

 

1.) Support all play styles, so non crafters can get what they need.

For this let me know if there are any items or resources sorely missing from trader inventory.

 

Vehicles or Vehicle parts. They should be sold only after you've ranked your trader up to their cap and for a very high price so non intellect players can acquire them after much work. Trader Perks should be taken out and instead replaced with the Trader Rank system where by doing quests levels up your trader (kind of how it is now with getting higher tier quests) which will increase your Bartering skill and unlock better stuff in their secret stashes. This would be easily modifiable too with by just basically upping or lowering the amount of quest you do in order to rank up. If you want to go extra bad ass have a visual change to his base every time the trader ranks up.

 

 

2.) Make it possible to make a living role playing.

Whether it be a lumberjack, a rock miner, a blacksmith, hunter, crafter selling his goods, scavenger selling things, I think you should be able to make a modest living. I'd want to know what trades are under powered and which ones are overpowered or not even supported.

 

Tie this quests. Something like "Carpenter Quest Tier 2" and make is so you have to craft specific things and then deliver them to the trader. You can make a little kiosk to sell said quests so they are separate from the main trader quests. The rewards can dukes and exp with a chance for a rare item to further enhance your Carpentry skill. This would make Jobs a helluv a lot more immersive and fun.

 

3.) Perk balance. Are the trading perks too good? I typically get by without them so maybe they are OP?

 

As said earlier, take them out and tie them to questing and ranking up your trader.

[lord_ahriman]

Solo, I'm richer than Cresus, so it's hard to give any advice other than "raise the prices!"

 

Quests pay too much. I think prices should be indexed to the player's reputation with the merchant. And the reputation should depend on successful quests (and their level) or quests that are not successful or canceled (the reputation should drastically fall in this case).

 

I would also like merchants to offer more decorative items, anything that is not craftable.

 

I would prefer that vending machines disappear, but hey, it's personal: I find these things counter-immersive and totally inappropriate in a devastated world.

 

And as has been suggested, I would much prefer specialized dealers, which would require to look for them: a gunsmith, a grocer, a doctor, a furniture merchant, etc.

 

 

edit : and when we're infected or sick, they should refuse to trade (or shoot at sight ^^)

 

Disagree about that because it goes against "1.) Support all play styles". Most builders couldn't care less about quests so we need to buy everything, specially ammo. So should we pay more because play style? Absolutely not.

[fazi]

Disagree about that because it goes against "1.) Support all play styles". Most builders couldn't care less about quests so we need to buy everything, specially ammo. So should we pay more because play style? Absolutely not.

 

You should pay more, but have something specific to builders to sell for more, for example concrete.Or, a quest to build something for the trader for dukes.If not, an option when i start the game to chose specialization, cause i don't wanna buy all my ammo from the trader just because you want, but ill still do it if it easier than looting or crafting it