Viktoriusiii Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 This will be the last post I make. Yes I said this before, but I actually had some sort of interest still left and wanted to wait to see what A17.1 fixes (answer: not much) So here is my complete response to A17: As many have complained about the following part, please follow the link, as that is more important than the following. The good +stunning graphics. It looks supremely nice and most things have been reworked to give the game a better feel of dread +new blocks and pois. Just wow. I feel like its a completely new game. It feels more alive in every way. Pois are now varied and even the same pois look different because of the +lootcontainers. YES. This is really nice. It gives you a feel of reward instantly. Not sure if "empty" ones from the start will respawn stuff lateron and become "normal" containers (that would be awesome) but while not perfect, it improves the feel of looting a lot +mods. (gunparts in the bad) I really like the different effect of them. I disagree with them giving the weapon damage, but the mods itself are awesome. +traders. Finally a trader isn't like your granny who somehow has everything you could possibly need and basically giftwraps every item for you, while buying the most useless ♥♥♥♥ for insane prices +quests. I will mention this in balancing, but overall a really nice feel to it. The rewards really make me WANT to take the quests and go through the chores of digging for 10 minutes or walking through endless desert +vehicles. OMG I CANT WAIT TO FINALLY GET IN ONE!!! It looks great, I only heard great things, this is probably the best thing of this alpha. The meh +-death penalties/wellness. Well.. I was a big fan of wellness, as it slowly increased over time, while it rewarded you for not dying and actually eating good food. The problem was that when you already were at min wellness, dying made no difference. I would have liked for the wellness system to stay intact and give the death penalty depending on your maximum wellness (a lot of wellness? only 5 minutes penalty-10 wellness; at the bare minimum of wellness-0wellness 45min of penalty) but its fine this way. +-progression/feel of the game. I am generally a play who likes to spend his time on the buildup. So I welcome a bit slower earlygame. However, the way this is done in A17 is not a good one. Instead of giving more to do, increasing crafting costs and ressources with lower quality simply not giving a lot of ressources, you have made the earlygame a crawl. This will be talked about in the bad again, but overall, this needs revision, because slowing the game down a bit is fine, but the way it is done is not. +-RWG. I hate that it is now always the same (snow north desert south) this takes away a lot of freedom and replayability. I know why it was done, the new temperature system is brutal. But still. The other stuff is fine! When excluding all the bugs, the world feels more like a real world and not just some sin cos lines on top of each other. There are flat parts, there are small hills and bigger ones (mountains are missing, at least in the grasland... amybe thats just me). So if you work out all the bugs, its a more believable world. +-perks. I like some of them. I like a lot of them. But most of them don't feel like I earned them. It feels like the trader in A16. Like I just farmed a bit and then bought it and there I am, now with a perk. I think more perkvariety or even extra challenges (instead of levelgating) like "walk 20km" to get that sprintboost 5 would feel a LOT more rewarding. It feels like what I'm doing makes a difference. Right now the perks... are just there. They are fine... and can be fun... but aren't much special. The bad -no gunparts. I hate that you now find guns in the whole and every gun does the same damage and quality was set from 600 to 6, which in turn scrambles progression. (*) It gave such a nice curve of progression and if they had just done what a lot of people suggested (stock improving stability,barrel accuracy, magazine how often reload is stuck, parts durability and all of them improve damage) they would have such a nice system. Now its a simple "gun or no gun!" and the only difference is how many mods I can install, which give dmg (yay. My weapon is now green, so it shoots harder! Yay my weapon now has a scope/laser so it shoots harder yay) There was NO REASON to completely remove this awesome system, as it made every weapon unique and had a lot of potential. -level gating. HOW. WHY. Who thought this is a good idea. Name me one game where levelgating helps the game and is not an obvious last resort to fix glaring progression issues (so no A16). No one who has studied gamedesign... hell no one who has played games regularly would think levelgating is a good idea in a SANDBOX SURVIVAL GAME (even for rpg/horror games) Just don't. I gave you my examples on how to fix this without arbitrary levelrequirements... do with those what you want. But if you don't remove them, I will, for the first time in 7d2d, mod my xmls. -performance. DAMN this is bad. I understand that it is EA experimental. But I cannot see how this could improve AT LEAST on the level that A16 was running (we were promised improvements on performance). Yes I have no doubt you will get this to work, but it still had to be said. -progression. its all over the place. Leveling takes longer, better perks are gated behind level, but in the same breath I found an AK-47 and a shotgun with around 70 ammo on day 8. And since weapons are all the same, I'm already better off then I was in A16 on day 50. -zombies. I like that they now are a threat. BUT. Their A.I. is way too straightforward, they rather sit there for 5 minutes to hit blocks on end, instead of taking the "free" route through the spikes that they don't even see. They must be psycic. The conga line of wandering hordes are still gps trackers and are now slow as hell on daytime. The spawning of zombies in pois (not talking about amount, thats for balancing) is cheaty. They are only there to surprise the player, which doesn't feel like this world is actually real, but that the devs just wanted to scare players. There could have been other ways to do that. Also playerdetection is super weird (*jumps* *atomic bomb explodes*). -hitboxes. Has been talked about in this forums, but still: You should not only hit a zombie when he is in the little cross at the end of your swing. My sledgehammer should hit everything in front of me (at least depending in the swing). This way makes faster weapons a lot more forgiving, which feels bad, because I like the harder hitting ones. This could have been in bugs, because its so broken. Fix this. -removal of stainless steel. Zombies got more dangerous. We need more endgame content. WHY WOULD YOU REMOVE and endgame item now? Especially since it was so super rare that you only had that day 100+ and even then without defenses this would crumble. (*) if I have to find 4 parts and the chance is 1/50, the overall chance to find them is 1/200. But until then, i gradually progress, finding more and more parts, until I finally have the gun. If I have to find 1 part and the chance is 1/200, for a long time I don't have anything to show for it, no plan to go to the trader to look for that last part... and suddenly BOOM. Completely functional, endgame AK-47. The balance issues I have not played enough of A17 to give more balancing issues, as I've only reached lvl 25, day 10. Thats why most of this is bound to the early game. (Also nothing with levelgates is mentioned because I hope they will remove that soon) -block hp/zombie blockdmg -spawnrate of ferals in pois/quests (should not appear before a certain gamestage, maybe not even before day 7) -spawnrate of zombies in pois/quests -too many guns -nests are everywhere (900 feathers and 90+ eggs on day 9) burnt biome should not have any (or at least very very few) nests, because they all burnt and because you can see them so insanely well -a "lucky gun find" early is worse then a crossbow. only perks make weapons viable. -running takes too much stamina. I get why mining should take a lot, but stopping every 150 meters (non desert) to get a breather (even with lvl 1 perk) is just not enjoyable -loot from zombies should be more frequent, and more specific to the killed zombie (hazmat guy dropped an ak... instead of hazmat clothes, nurse dropped water instead of healing...) -loot in cars is absolutely insane. Got 20+ 7.65 bulltes on my very first car and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noompsie Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 You say you have only reached level 25, but there are too many guns. I am level 70 and thanks god for the guns. At around level 55ish the radiated green ferals in any of the POI's mean that in order to survive, guns are an absolute necessity. Unfortunately, I use most of my amo to clear out the poi and get back a small amount from whatever loot is in there. I think the amo in the POI's needs to be boosted BIG time. I hope they dont see your post as loot is something they need to nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maje Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Can you imagine how punishing this game is to new players now? It's honestly just tedious to play. I can imagine a lot of people not bothering buying the game after seeing the community response. They obviously wanted the player to have the feeling of growing in power as they progress, but they're implementation is beyond poor. It seems the devs are incapable of taking the feedback of the player base, taking the attitude of "we know best". I swear they don't even play the game. It'll all come full circle with a downturn in purchase and player retention. It'll serve them right too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nice Cup of Tea Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 It seems the devs are incapable of taking the feedback of the player base, taking the attitude of "we know best". It's far worse than that. They are taking feedback and responding to it, but they are doing so from the wrong people. They should be making the game to suit may tastes, dammit! Not those of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noompsie Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Can you imagine how punishing this game is to new players now? It's honestly just tedious to play. I can imagine a lot of people not bothering buying the game after seeing the community response. They obviously wanted the player to have the feeling of growing in power as they progress, but they're implementation is beyond poor. It seems the devs are incapable of taking the feedback of the player base, taking the attitude of "we know best". I swear they don't even play the game. It'll all come full circle with a downturn in purchase and player retention. It'll serve them right too. sometimes they need to feel it in the hip pocket before they take notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maje Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 It's far worse than that. They are taking feedback and responding to it, but they are doing so from the wrong people. They should be making the game to suit may tastes, dammit! Not those of other people. I'd love to see the request(s) for the current stamina system. Don't pretend the overwhelming feedback from the implementation of new "features" hasn't been negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymantle Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I'd love to see the request(s) for the current stamina system. Don't pretend the overwhelming feedback from the implementation of new "features" hasn't been negative. Love the new stamina system brings some strategy to fighting for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Level 25 and no vehicles? You can get a bicycle in the first week easily...no workbench required. It changes the game dramatically. Go back and give it another shot Vik. Stick with it and DON'T get discouraged if you die. The game's overall difficulty curve has shifted upward, and like those old <= A16 days when dog packs were too crazy, there's going to be some death that's difficult to avoid. That may get smoothed out, or maybe they'll keep it in so you appreciate just how much better your character performs once you get perks in place. Don't force the leveling too much, or you'll end up with the inflated gamestage and lacking the gear/material to survive there....just play without thinking too much about leveling, and you'll find that game starts to "feel" good (you'll probably need to make 40-50 or so). The latest balancing in 17.1 seems to fix a fair number of issues with the early game (the stone ax doesn't weigh 100 lbs anymore etc.). Avoid quests until you get that bicycle, unless you get a quest option that is very close (< 1km). -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomkat Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 7 days to die just keeps getting better and better, I have no idea what some of you are whining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 After reading your post, it seems you don't know the game as much as you think. A lot of mistakes, a lot of complains about things you can modify in settings or xml files very easily. Complaining about "too many guns" at the same time than "too many ferals" or "too many hidden sleepers" is'nt very consistent. You suck at fighting with the sledgehammer ? Use one of your many AK ! Debating about LBD or gun parts again and again is useless : it's like administer artificial respiration to a dead body. Insisting could be confused with necrophilia. Sorry that you don't enjoy the game anymore. But for what I read, you climb the mountain by the wrong slope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I read your big rant. The funny thing is no matter how you say it, its still fundamentally the same. You grind for xp and buy perks. Finding gun parts was the tedious bs we took out, and people say we added tedium? What good is a x receiver to a struggling survivor? All it did was fill your backpack with useless garbage. I could go on and on, but I suggest playing the game. Play 16 if you love it. It wasn't as great as you remember if you just play 17 with an open mind. We're probably adding damage back to quality and I have a get better at crafting by crafting design I need to sell to the team. I'd suggest playing 17.1 or wait, we're improving the game but it takes time. Its not perfect but its getting better each patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thecolours Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 We're probably adding damage back to quality and I have a get better at crafting by crafting design I need to sell to the team. . Oh, hell yeah. Please add damage to quality. As it is theres no huge boost to craft steel tools or weapons. I can get by just fine with iron tools/weapons and the 5 mod slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 No, please no Just add a Weaponvalue 1-200 or 300 or whatever you want. A value that add not much to the damage maybe 10-20% on max (example 10% at 300) And then add the ability that the character raise this value by 1 if he Disassemble a gun of the same type as he have in his belt Voila and suddenly you have back the biggest benefit of the old system, a slow long pace progress. Maybe allow a "lucky factor" that one disassembling can count as a few, because the "Benefit" the player found at disassembling was a bigger one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hello and thank you madmole for taking the time to read such a long post. Well fundamentally Ark and Atlas are the same game. Implementation matters a great deal. And you DIDN'T grind for xp in A16. XP was a byproduct that gained you a nice perk or two. (yes it had levelgating and I was against that even back then). I am playing A16 right now and most points I mention still hold true. Progression was WAY more gradual and everything you did matters. Now no matter what I do, XP is everything. I can always put points into what I feel is most useful. Why can I be a master marksman if I never held a bow/gun? Nice to hear the quality change. OH NO!!! Getting better at crafting is the ONLY thing that made sense to remove, because it is so insanely hard to balance (I did some suggestions, but they are all complicated with timed xp and stuff)... if you can balance it, NICE! But all the other perks like fighting looting and mining were way more important as a progression. I already took so much of your time, so I will leave it at that even if I would have to say much more. So thank you for actually taking the time to read and respond, and please do not think that 45% like ratio is just ppl beeing salty. This forum and reddit are VERY favourable for your views, and even there are quite some ppl who hate the new update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpoon Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 @viktoriusii, there are quite a few gripes of yours that don't bother me. For example, I'm with MM on the weapon parts. Just last night I picked up a compound bow, and I thought to myself, 'better stash this safely away until I've found the other parts'...and then suddenly I realised.... "F*CK YEAH! IT'S A WHOLE COMPOUND BOW! AAAAAW YISS!" ...but I'm with you on this point totally: Getting better at crafting is the ONLY thing that made sense to remove, because it is so insanely hard to balance (I did some suggestions, but they are all complicated with timed xp and stuff)... if you can balance it, NICE! But all the other perks like fighting looting and mining were way more important as a progression. Agreed, if the crafting can be balanced that will be great, but the other stuff is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbruh_will Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Can you imagine how punishing this game is to new players now? It's honestly just tedious to play. I can imagine a lot of people not bothering buying the game after seeing the community response. They obviously wanted the player to have the feeling of growing in power as they progress, but they're implementation is beyond poor. It seems the devs are incapable of taking the feedback of the player base, taking the attitude of "we know best". I swear they don't even play the game. It'll all come full circle with a downturn in purchase and player retention. It'll serve them right too. I have to completely disagree here. I have played with newer players that love the game and of course it should be punishing initially, it's a survival game after all lol. Think about it...you are naked and stranded with no recollection of what happened and there are things every where trying to kill you. You have to adapt and improvise quickly in order to survive. Nevertheless, you can increase or decrease the difficulty in order to match your current skill. The game is fully customizable in regards to difficulty and if the newer player finds it too hard, they should lower it. Not to sound like an Ass about all of this but games should be hard and should offer a challenge, otherwise it gets old and boring fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viktoriusiii Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 I have to completely disagree here. I have played with newer players that love the game and of course it should be punishing initially, it's a survival game after all lol. Think about it...you are naked and stranded with no recollection of what happened and there are things every where trying to kill you. You have to adapt and improvise quickly in order to survive. Nevertheless, you can increase or decrease the difficulty in order to match your current skill. The game is fully customizable in regards to difficulty and if the newer player finds it too hard, they should lower it. Not to sound like an Ass about all of this but games should be hard and should offer a challenge, otherwise it gets old and boring fast. I think what most people mean by "difficulty" is not the zombies... seriously, I have them always on run (where they are faster than you but not when you sprint) and on insane and they are still just xp pinhatas. I think difficulty means, getting started, making yourself comfortable in the game. Gathering ressources without beeing out of breath every 2 seconds, getting starting gear while keeping in mind food, water, temperature,foodpoisoning,diarrea when clearing out zombies from a poi, seeing attackpatterns and how to fight wolves and vultures. None of this is goverened by difficulty settings. In A16 you instantly got a feel for the game. Yes it was still a load, but at least you could run anywhere without beeing out of breath every 2 seconds. And while you were doing that in the game, you already got better at attributes. In A17 you also need to know what you want to put points into, because you will get fewer and fewer points and reskilling isn't possible, so if you have put everything into agility, you don't have any inventory, nothing to fight, no forge no nothing. At least this is what I am fairly certain most ppl mean by "A17 is more difficult". Because it is definalty easier to play (against zombies) as molotovs now give xp and zombies have even worse range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellsmoke Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I read your big rant. The funny thing is no matter how you say it, its still fundamentally the same. You grind for xp and buy perks. Finding gun parts was the tedious bs we took out, and people say we added tedium? What good is a x receiver to a struggling survivor? All it did was fill your backpack with useless garbage. I could go on and on, but I suggest playing the game. Play 16 if you love it. It wasn't as great as you remember if you just play 17 with an open mind. We're probably adding damage back to quality and I have a get better at crafting by crafting design I need to sell to the team. I'd suggest playing 17.1 or wait, we're improving the game but it takes time. Its not perfect but its getting better each patch. I agree with you on the gun parts, always hated it. The mods are much cooler imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Not to sound like an Ass about all of this but games should be hard and should offer a challenge, otherwise it gets old and boring fast. A challenge it not the only way to keep a game interesting and fun to play. There are a lot of game out there with no challenge at all but they keep you occupied for hours and you have so much fun playing it that you don't even notice that you have played for hours. If you make a game too hard for a new player then he will get quickly frustrated and quit playing. The difficulty should always match the skills of the player and a new player will always start on the default difficulty settings (nomad, 60 minute days). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVegaNL Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 The game is getting easier and easier each update.. don't know what you're complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbruh_will Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Not sure if you tried 17.1 but most of what you said is being remedied (from starting fullness and hydration to stamina usage). IMO, stamina is really only a problem for people not paying attention/early game and if your having a problem with the weather, just stay the heck out of harsh biomes until you have better clothing/resistance....easy fix. Also, when reading your comment I thought to myself, why would anyone go full stamina, seems like a poor choice. Don't get me wrong, new players may make this mistake and maybe this can be fixed with a re-skill item offered by trader quests or something like that, but still...most people will want more damage and gathering and will know when it's good to fight or run away (also part of survival - especially early on). On the point of A16 feeling more intuitive, I can agree it did for us playing the game for a while since the previous iterations were very similar, but for a brand new player, both Alphas would require just as much learning thus being difficult in the same way. On a side note, A16 mid to late game was a joke. It was so incredibly easy to make huge base builds and I can't remember ever feeling threatened doing large poi's/skyscrappers or feeling desperate for materials. it really killed the game and made it boring as you progressed. Just go to youtube vids on A16 for reference and you will find numerous videos of people with full Steel towers that are untouchable essentially and every single stash box filled with supplies to rebuild their bases 100x's over....all within the first two horde nights as well. Talk about easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Not sure if you tried 17.1 but most of what you said is being remedied (from starting fullness and hydration to stamina usage). IMO, stamina is really only a problem for people not paying attention/early game and if your having a problem with the weather, just stay the heck out of harsh biomes until you have better clothing/resistance....easy fix. Also, when reading your comment I thought to myself, why would anyone go full stamina, seems like a poor choice. .... Because i cant stand gameplay that feels like a "world covered with glue" If you had no problems with that, just move on. Its not so that i want to force you to understand how i perceive the world. A17.1 has solved this for me in a tolerable way. I guess this topic is solved, except you ask TFP to make it again more painfull. If you want that maybe install a mod, thats the point of a compromise. We both can play on foreign servers now. And we both can install mods on our own server or singleplayer game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paca Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi too many bug spawn zombies on the player, the zombie fight the player where he fall, it s become a massacre game not a survival game i hope the update resolve this problem. I m sorry for the language i m french Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesKirk Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 We're probably adding damage back to quality and I have a get better at crafting by crafting design I need to sell to the team. Just 5% per level-1 -> a level 5 weapon adds 20% bonus. So they are worth hunting for, but not overpowered. Or maybe for rifles accuracy instead of damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehot Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Honestly I agree with TFP on this, gun parts were complete and utter garbage, good riddance! And if you play the game for longer than you have, you'll be damn greatful for proper guns, because it's not easy. Don't get me wrong I disagree with TFP on various things, especially base building as of 17.1 I think they've almost broken the concept of it, and are really aiming for one type of building that stands a chance, but gun parts were rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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