Just Get Rid Of Stamina All Together... <FLAME ON!>

[ecv]

Because it is not easily fixed. If you want unlimited stamina, you need god-mode, which also makes you not feel pain or illness or anything else really. There is no way to turn of Stamina.

Also, you can not just enable godmode and then build like a pro. you'd have to spawn in all items, cause mining will still take forver. felling an entire tree at low level will give you enough wood for a few boxes.

 

There is a difference between full sandbox-mode like you are suggesting, and a more balanced survival build crafting game. You can't just flip a switch, not even in 7dtd, there's too many compromises that way.

[WolfyBlah]

I just don’t understand why people complain about a system that is still new and they haven’t learned yet. Put some perks into stamina Regen? Pretty easy. Yes the first day is harder atm but with 17.1 and the first day adjustment the issue will be mostly gone. Unless you are one of those people who only wanna build (holy moly creative mode and cheat mode exists for that purpose!!!) why does everyone play survival of they just wanna build? Just use some cheats to early level and get perks to get rid of stamina woes and “enjoy” survival mode?

 

The issue is the perk system is supposed to be about making choices.

 

Nerfing the players stamina to be basiclly unusable without investing in it makes it not an option.

 

Survival also refers to long term survival, somthing those that restart over and over dont seem to get. They get to a point where they have an ak47 and call the game done because they feel invincible.

 

Dont assume that people like me ONLY want to build. Thats not the case at all, if all i wanted to do was build i would do it in a game that runs better and has actual world editting and building tools.

 

Do i want to fight zombies and gather resources to build a base? Yes.

Do i want to grind xyz ammount of levels so i can craft somthing or so stamina isnt a massive chore or so my food doesnt drain at an excessive (unfun) rate or so i can carry a decent ammount of items? ♥♥♥♥ NO.

Im totally against perks and leveling having any effect on the survival aspects (food/drink, illness, stamina).

As it stands all these things are only an issue in the early game because you havent gotten the perks related to it.

Difficulty my ass, let all players have the same drain rate for food and water throughout the game and remove the 'basicly turn survival off' perks and then we can talk about adding actual difficulty.

[Crimedogg]

I like the perks. I just feel that you get too few points initially for how things are tuned.

 

Maybe the first thirty levels give us 3 points a level. I like how I feel around level 30. I am good in some areas, OK in others, and lacking in others. And I got to make those choices. I feel like this is where you should around level 10. Day 7. Then slow down the number of points you get. That way you are growing in the way you want, but at base level you feel OK.

 

Right now the beginning just feels bad.

[stasis78]

I like the perks. I just feel that you get too few points initially for how things are tuned.

 

Maybe the first thirty levels give us 3 points a level. I like how I feel around level 30. I am good in some areas, OK in others, and lacking in others. And I got to make those choices. I feel like this is where you should around level 10. Day 7. Then slow down the number of points you get. That way you are growing in the way you want, but at base level you feel OK.

 

Right now the beginning just feels bad.

 

MM said they are going to add a slider to increase/decrease XP gains. Just wait for a patch and you will be able to level faster.

[Jackelmyer]

I just don’t understand why people complain about a system that is still new and they haven’t learned yet. Put some perks into stamina Regen? Pretty easy. Yes the first day is harder atm but with 17.1 and the first day adjustment the issue will be mostly gone. Unless you are one of those people who only wanna build (holy moly creative mode and cheat mode exists for that purpose!!!) why does everyone play survival if they just wanna build? Just use some cheats to early level and get perks to get rid of stamina woes and “enjoy” survival mode?

 

Why does everyone play clearly a building game with survival making gathering for building such a boring activity?

 

It's not survival. It's not a builder. It's not Minecraft. It's not Fallout. It is... 7 Days to Die. And it's not one thing...

 

And people have tried the new system. And found it frustrating.

 

And stop diminishing people who build. I can bet you that the building aspect of 7D2D has had much more focus and effort put into it as opposed to survival. Not just the blocks, not just the SI, not just the landscaping and world gen, not just in POI creation, etc etc etc.

 

A lot of builders came to 7D2D so their creations could stand the test of a real enemy. I'm one of them. So piss off home slice. If you want survival focused, I highly recommend the mobile game Survive. It's actually... really simple... and really good...

[Royal Deluxe]

I just don’t understand why people complain about a system that is still new and they haven’t learned yet.

Nuff ? All A17

[Snowydeath]

Well since we aren't the same person and won't be able to understand each other fully, lets just say that stamina is alright if you invest the proper perks early on, and there will be tweaks to come in the future. A lot of the new systems will be tweaked and balanced properly over the next few updates.

[BobTheBard]

I really don't understand the mining pick power attack used for mining either. Like... okay... I have to angry mine now if I want to make meaningful progress? Is... Is that it? Was a right click slower swing really intended to be a way to make mining more fun? Uh... It's kinda not...

 

On a note unrelated to the thread, I use the mining pick power attack fairly often, just not for mining. It's a very quick power attack with near guaranteed knockdown, which is great for when a zombie sneaks up on you in a mine or when you're breaking a door or safe in a POI.

[Royal Deluxe]

As a sidenote, in a real Zombieapocalypse you would use Mining pics as mainweapon

 

Best tool to destroy a brain in a hard skull

[Hek Harris]

As a sidenote, in a real Zombieapocalypse you would use Mining pics as mainweapon

 

Best tool to destroy a brain in a hard skull

I would not like that. Surely because in a zombieapocalypse, I would be a zombie.

[LuckyStar]

As a sidenote, in a real Zombieapocalypse you would use Mining pics as mainweapon

 

Best tool to destroy a brain in a hard skull

 

Actually I've seen two experiments on this subject and they would disagree with you.

 

Mythbusters tested this.

 

Concluded that Crowbar is the best because:

 

- Steel is excellent and unlikely to bend or break.

- Easy to find.

- Weight versus damage is good.

 

YouTube channel [blacksmiths and Medieval Historians]

 

Concluded that Crowbar is the best

 

- Pretty much same reasons as Mythbusters.

- Slightly modded becomes excellent killing tool.

 

They also mentioned that you wouldn't be trying to smash the skull always.

Depending on type of zombies, it's more likely you're trying to get access to the base of the skull to hit the top of the spine.

That's an instant kill and you don't have to go through the skull to get at it.

[Royal Deluxe]

Mythbusters he said .... rofl (after i saw 3 episodes that was simply wrong i never ever again watched this)

 

Sure a crowbar would be nice too.

But

If we would discuss this serious we would come to the conclusion that in a group these group would carry different heavy tools.

Because each Kg counts there is not much reason to share the weight not like:

* 1 Sledehammer

* 1 Axe

* 1 Pickaxe

* 1 Crowbar

* 1 Shovel

 

 

(well

* Saw(s)

* Bolt cutter

* Ladder

would be hard to use as decent weapon)

[Dimpy]

A pick would pierce the skull most effectively, but it would take more skill, the head would break off more easily, and it would be hard to remove. Probably useful for taking out a sleeping wight in one hit though.

 

I'd probably use a pike because distance from zombie = good.

[Hek Harris]

Learn from pros :

[Frotus]

Well to be fair the tweak I mentioned hasn’t been released yet. It is in build 241.

 

Just in case anyone is playing right now and wondering what the hell Roland was talking about.

 

I do like the fact that I only have as much energy/stamina as I am fed. This makes eating before you are about to die something I think about. It also seems natural that I would get tired faster if I was hungry.

 

The tweaks to help early game until you get a couple perks sounds good.

[Frotus]

I like the perks. I just feel that you get too few points initially for how things are tuned.

 

Maybe the first thirty levels give us 3 points a level. I like how I feel around level 30. I am good in some areas, OK in others, and lacking in others. And I got to make those choices. I feel like this is where you should around level 10. Day 7. Then slow down the number of points you get. That way you are growing in the way you want, but at base level you feel OK.

 

Right now the beginning just feels bad.

 

Maybe starting with some points to pre-customize your character? I.E. I am RP'ing the Chef from the navy ship in the movie "Under Siege"....

I already know how to make bacon and eggs and I have Crushing Blows down to level 2 already when I wake up naked and left to die in a zombie apocalypse world.

[Jackelmyer]

Mythbusters he said .... rofl (after i saw 3 episodes that was simply wrong i never ever again watched this)

 

Sure a crowbar would be nice too.

But

If we would discuss this serious we would come to the conclusion that in a group these group would carry different heavy tools.

Because each Kg counts there is not much reason to share the weight not like:

* 1 Sledehammer

* 1 Axe

* 1 Pickaxe

* 1 Crowbar

* 1 Shovel

 

 

(well

* Saw(s)

* Bolt cutter

* Ladder

would be hard to use as decent weapon)

 

Cannot agree with ya man. I want a weapon that moves quickly with enough weight to smoosh things still.

 

Sledgehammer? Hope there's only 1 slow zombie and you don't miss.

Axe? Betterish, but same.

Pickaxe? Same and worse than sledge.

Crowbar? File down both ends to points and I'm totally down. More than enough weight.

 

 

But seriously. I'm sticking with my #1 tool in a zombie apocalypse...

 

1 Full Sized Monster Truck, with a high HP diesel engine replacing the monster truck engine and 3/4 sized tires (weight). I don't need to be fast. I don't need to be cool spitting flames. Not jumping busses or driving over them. Just give me a good 10mph go and I'm all good from there...

[LuckyStar]

Mythbusters he said .... rofl (after i saw 3 episodes that was simply wrong i never ever again watched this)

 

Sure a crowbar would be nice too.

But

If we would discuss this serious we would come to the conclusion that in a group these group would carry different heavy tools.

Because each Kg counts there is not much reason to share the weight not like:

* 1 Sledehammer

* 1 Axe

* 1 Pickaxe

* 1 Crowbar

* 1 Shovel

 

 

(well

* Saw(s)

* Bolt cutter

* Ladder

would be hard to use as decent weapon)

 

Nah you wouldn't carry a sledge.

That would be a waste!

 

You'd just use the back of the axe.

 

Sledge would be a s*** tool to carry around and an even worse weapon.

[asmosnuts]

Stamina isnt an issue if you arent rushing for levels and is never that serious a problem. Obviously its problematic for builders/more experienced players who want to get early game out of the way. For new players its a much more natural progression giving you time to learn how to play.

There were so many complaining about early game being too easy, now they scream its too much when it really isnt that difficult at all! Gated stuff is what it is and not the gamekiller people insist it is. It causes no real problems unless you throw your toys out of the pram because you cant build castles by day 7 or be sitting in a bedrock bunker. Frustrating? certainly gamekilling? no. Patience has its own reward!

That sledgehammer becomes awesome later on along with stealth and a decent bow, as long as rng is relatively kind of course!

[Royal Deluxe]

Nah you wouldn't carry a sledge.

That would be a waste!

 

You'd just use the back of the axe.

 

Sledge would be a s*** tool to carry around and an even worse weapon.

 

Depends, the question is if a sledge could do a reccuring job much better than the other tools.

So far the only job came into my mind would be to push poles into ground when you make a camp

 

But i guess we would need a really long thread to discuss this

[WolfyBlah]

Stamina isnt an issue if you arent rushing for levels and is never that serious a problem. Obviously its problematic for builders/more experienced players who want to get early game out of the way. For new players its a much more natural progression giving you time to learn how to play.

There were so many complaining about early game being too easy, now they scream its too much when it really isnt that difficult at all! Gated stuff is what it is and not the gamekiller people insist it is. It causes no real problems unless you throw your toys out of the pram because you cant build castles by day 7 or be sitting in a bedrock bunker. Frustrating? certainly gamekilling? no. Patience has its own reward!

That sledgehammer becomes awesome later on along with stealth and a decent bow, as long as rng is relatively kind of course!

 

Il disagree.

With the current balance stamina is always an issue until you invest points into it.

If its supposed to be a mechanic that makes the game difficult thats fine, whats not fine is perks that make it (and other things like food drain rate) less of an issue: they are litteraly 'make the game easy' perks.

 

Id like the worlds difficulty to be set in the settings at the start of the game instead of wether you choose a certain perk from leveling.

 

So you either force yourself to not take them to maintain actual difficulty (not good)

Or you take them and the game is easy as piss.

 

Its not the early game was too easy, its that the only challange TFP have ever provided is a nerfed starting point.

 

What endgame challanges do we have?

-radiated zombies that regen HP

Pretty lackluster in terms of actual difficulty, this is a gear check instead of actual skill being a factor

-ferals that move faster, previously ignoring the world rules (glad this is mostly fixed, football zombies are still excluded and should probably follow the run/walk settings for normal zombies)

-special zombies

These are not a bad way of increasing difficulty, more specials (with actual mechanics beyond more/regening HP) would be great. Take a page from killingfloors book on this one if you need to see what cool special zombies that are more than just 'this one regenerates HP' are like.

 

This game has always been easy, a17 is the easiest yet.

[dregonazure]

Il disagree.

With the current balance stamina is always an issue until you invest points into it.

If its supposed to be a mechanic that makes the game difficult thats fine, whats not fine is perks that make it (and other things like food drain rate) less of an issue: they are litteraly 'make the game easy' perks.

 

Id like the worlds difficulty to be set in the settings at the start of the game instead of wether you choose a certain perk from leveling.

 

So you either force yourself to not take them to maintain actual difficulty (not good)

Or you take them and the game is easy as piss.

 

Its not the early game was too easy, its that the only challange TFP have ever provided is a nerfed starting point.

 

What endgame challanges do we have?

-radiated zombies that regen HP

Pretty lackluster in terms of actual difficulty, this is a gear check instead of actual skill being a factor

-ferals that move faster, previously ignoring the world rules (glad this is mostly fixed, football zombies are still excluded and should probably follow the run/walk settings for normal zombies)

-special zombies

These are not a bad way of increasing difficulty, more specials (with actual mechanics beyond more/regening HP) would be great. Take a page from killingfloors book on this one if you need to see what cool special zombies that are more than just 'this one regenerates HP' are like.

 

This game has always been easy, a17 is the easiest yet.

 

more diverse enemies like killing floor would be awesome, that said i doubt TFP will ever do that. just gotta be prepared for more nerfs to extend the early game, more bullet sponge enemies, and eventually bandits that somehow know the optimum path to you in your own base at all times and will probably have near perfect accuracy from all distances

[WolfyBlah]

more diverse enemies like killing floor would be awesome, that said i doubt TFP will ever do that. just gotta be prepared for more nerfs to extend the early game, more bullet sponge enemies, and eventually bandits that somehow know the optimum path to you in your own base at all times and will probably have near perfect accuracy from all distances

 

I hope to god theres an options toggle for bandits, never wanted them in my game to start with.

 

Im already used to the game being more dumbed down each alpha, wasnt suprised in the least when a17 followed this same pattern.

[Royal Deluxe]

Im already used to the game being more dumbed down each alpha,

Strange , i perveive the opposite.

 

Sure A17 has some flaws that need improvement

The Learing by doing progression i liked more.

But A17 is mostly really nice and most things i dont like can be (easy) modded.

 

* I would wish you would have for each ability own XP you get by doing things related to this ability.

* A possibility to improve a Item by merging (disassembling) other items of same type into it (even for a small bonus)

* Get rid of endless Q6 Crafting. Some kind of quantity gate that remove the "Int = 10 = game over"

 

and its ... well i avoid to say perfect, but really nice

[WolfyBlah]

Strange , i perveive the opposite.

 

Sure A17 has some flaws that need improvement

The Learing by doing progression i liked more.

But A17 is mostly really nice and most things i dont like can be (easy) modded.

 

* I would wish you would have for each ability own XP you get by doing things related to this ability.

* A possibility to improve a Item by merging (disassembling) other items of same type into it (even for a small bonus)

* Get rid of endless Q6 Crafting. Some kind of quantity gate that remove the "Int = 10 = game over"

 

and its ... well i avoid to say perfect, but really nice

 

The new perk system can not work with LBD. A lot of the stuff in the new one is completely disconnected from gameplay.

Lets say encumbrance... you get better at it by having a full inventory?

Slow metabolism... you get better at retaining food by...eating? What? That litteraly makes the game easier as you play...

Healing factor... i get free HP regen (this perk is bull♥♥♥♥ if you are trying to give us a difficult survival experiance) by what? Gettig hit.

 

Having attributes be somthing that your raise by doing certain activities and then spending perk points on is basically what a16 alrealdy was, its just increasing your mining skills now also mean you do more damage with melee (clubs) because you are doing 'strength' activites.

 

This wont work, how do i raise INT? By (spam)crafting?