WolfyBlah Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Rimworld is a survival game too, but in many ways you're not expected to survive....certainly not everyone. This aspect makes pulling off a "win" very satisfying. It might be true that luck in a game being a factor in your survival might not be the very best design, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as "terrible" either. With all the changes in A17, the traditional "default" settings are probably not an analogue to what we used to use. I believe Roland implied something to that effect when he'd wished that they had dropped the difficulty setting a notch. You forgot what's probably the biggest difference...the Zs hit harder. Very different game because of that. Heavy-fisted zombies force you to play more carefully. You need to consider mobility vs. mitigation. Those one or two hits you might absorb fighting some ferals become deadly. You end up needing to decide whether you'll adjust your playstyle accordingly, or take the risk of racking up deaths. It's not called 7D2Survive though, so it's all still fun The significant increase in feral encounters is what daunts me the most. I'm curious...what would be a proper scaling of difficulty for you? If not more bullet-spongy zombies, or more specialized zombies, are you talking about the survival aspects being made tougher, or.........? -Morloc I didnt mention zombies dealing more damage intentionally, because that IS a good way to increase difficulty. Increased spawns (volume, not composition) is also a good way to increase the difficulty. As to the composition of enemies: im all for unquie/special enemies, probably my favourite game of all time is killing floor (and in someways killing floor 2) so im all about fighting cool and unquie enemies. Irradiated: enemies regenerating HP just blows as a way to increase the difficulty. If irradiated meant: will explode upon death or will always infect/bleed with every hit... better. Ferals: this is a more of a sucky difficulty factor because of the way its implemented. Increasing the zombies movement speed can be a good way to increase difficulty but it needs to be done in a way thats not 'unlucky, all the Zs we spawned in this room will be sprinters'. Overall difficulty setting wether zombies: walk, mostly walk but sometimes run, 50/50, mostly run, always run i would be in support of. To take a nod to how KF handles move speed: its balanced in a way that *some* things cannot be outrun, specificly a raging scrake(chainsaw enemy) or fleshpound (walking pile of muscle and metal and rage) These are more mini bosses, maybe 1-4 of each will spawn in a wave, the 'difficulty' comes from managing these enemies while not being overwhelmed by weaker trash mobs. Would highly advice people to go give the killing floor games a try, see *how difficult* it is to not die when 2 raging FPs, a husk and a siren pop around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Please take a moment to look up what "exact same" means, then re-evaluate your response. Perhaps you meant to say "almost the same" or "virtually the same", which would still be hyperbole, but could still subjectively be true. Try and see the glass as "half full". If you buy the motorcycle perk you can build a motorcycle. Points spent, perk acquired...ability gained. TFP could make this perk harder to gain than steel, but I really like the idea of being able to build it sooner if I'm fortunate/determined enough to save up the steel. I'd like to see more of this sort of thing actually...less linear perks FTW! -Morloc So I should just lie to myself and pretend that I can make a motorcycle when I really can't? There is no positive side to a perk point spent and the perk not working. None at all. Do you even understand how absurd that sounds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMeiya Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 So I should just lie to myself and pretend that I can make a motorcycle when I really can't? There is no positive side to a perk point spent and the perk not working. None at all. Do you even understand how absurd that sounds? A motorcycle only costs 36 Steel bars, that is very very easily doable if you know where to farm it and get some in work crates/trader, ect. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes, you don't. I'm over level 100 and still haven't found a tool and die set, would it be nice to have? Yep, do I need it? Nope. Do I want it? Yes. (yes im aware that certain loot doesn't appear till you have 4/5 or 5/5 Lucky looter.) (I'm at 4/5 and I toss on lucky goggles for opening crates and stuff ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skullpoker Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 If you add a <!-- and a --> at the right points in progression.xml, suddenly there are no more level gates... #levelgate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 There is no positive side to a perk point spent and the perk not working. None at all. I agree 100%. I'm aware of only one perk which isn't working however, and it's disabled so you cannot purchase it (I'm not sure about the armor perks). I do KNOW you can build a motorcycle if you buy the perk though. So as we say in everywhere but your brain...you're wrong. If you're serious and this really isn't working for you, I suggest you try to verify your files through Steam and submit a bug report if the behavior continues. In A16 you could make seeds immediately...you couldn't really plant them until you got a hoe though. If you did need to buy a perk for making seeds before you had a forge and iron, would you buy it?...you might.....if you had found a hoe. To recap... If you can't get the steel to build a motorcycle, or don't care to focus on this you would.... A) Buy the Motorcycle perk! B) Wait on buying the Motorcycle perk! If you have collected 45 steel and your INT is high enough, you might.... A) Buy the Motorcycle perk! B) Wait on buying the Motorcycle perk! Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything. Have a nice day. -Morloc - - - Updated - - - If you add a <!-- and a --> at the right points in progression.xml, suddenly there are no more level gates... #levelgate ROFL! /WIN! -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 A motorcycle only costs 36 Steel bars, that is very very easily doable if you know where to farm it and get some in work crates/trader, ect. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes, you don't. I'm over level 100 and still haven't found a tool and die set, would it be nice to have? Yep, do I need it? Nope. Do I want it? Yes. (yes im aware that certain loot doesn't appear till you have 4/5 or 5/5 Lucky looter.) (I'm at 4/5 and I toss on lucky goggles for opening crates and stuff ) I don't need a motorcycle. I have a minibike. What I need is 50 steel for a shotgun. I only want a motorcycle. Even if I had 36 steel I wouldn't use it for that. Lets not forget steel arrow heads that I should have been able to make since I unlocked special bolts and arrows 48 levels ago. Like I said. There is no defending this. The recipes for these items need to change or steel needs to be made earlier. These are just wasted perk points. No other perk in the game is gated like this. I swear to god if the perks for the perception and strength tree's didn't actually work until level 70, you people would be foaming at the mouth about it. The very second it happens to be something that you either haven't played far enough into the game to need, or your play style doesn't require, then people who mention how broken it is just need to shut up. For the record, I always hated ammo being gated by the tool and die set. Which for some reason you need to also make steel arrow heads. Thank god the trader actually did have one of those. Good luck buying it though. He want's about 4000 dukes. I feel like there was a reason that the T&D set was not required to make arrow heads and bullets before. It is because we hated it. Seriously, crap like this wasn't even fun when finding it was the only gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hek Harris Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 But... if you need so much steel, why don't you build a forge and craft some ? sorry, just wanted to know how angrier you can become... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I agree 100%. I'm aware of only one perk which isn't working however, and it's disabled so you cannot purchase it (I'm not sure about the armor perks). I do KNOW you can build a motorcycle if you buy the perk though. So as we say in everywhere but your brain...you're wrong. If you're serious and this really isn't working for you, I suggest you try to verify your files through Steam and submit a bug report if the behavior continues. In A16 you could make seeds immediately...you couldn't really plant them until you got a hoe though. If you did need to buy a perk for making seeds before you had a forge and iron, would you buy it?...you might.....if you had found a hoe. To recap... If you can't get the steel to build a motorcycle, or don't care to focus on this you would.... A) Buy the Motorcycle perk! B) Wait on buying the Motorcycle perk! If you have collected 45 steel and your INT is high enough, you might.... A) Buy the Motorcycle perk! B) Wait on buying the Motorcycle perk! Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything. Have a nice day. -Morloc To recap. You are avoiding the facts all together and saying the same thing that does not matter at all. The best part about it is you think it makes you look smart. The fact is. There is no practicable way to get the steel required to make things I unlocked 48 levels ago. Much less things that unlocked along all of those 48 levels. You also don't seem to understand how perk points work. If you do not spend a perk to unlock these items when they are available, and you spend it on something else. NEWS FLASH! You still need it! So no there is no choice to be made. They expect you to be able to craft these items before level 70 or they would not have them unlock at way earlier levels. It is no argument that you personally don't require it, and nobody gives a damn that you don't. It is a conceptually flawed argument. I will say though, I am eager to read whatever nonsense you post next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTheBard Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I see the steel gate as less of a gate and more of a bottleneck in the perk system. My issue with the gating isn't that some steel recipes are obtained before steel itself. That's fine. The issue I have is that most of them are obtained before steel. From a gameplay perspective it's hard to get excited about taking a perk and thinking 'Man, this perk is going to be great when I finally get enough resources to use it in 25 levels.' But if you don't take it earlier, which you shouldn't, you then wind up with about 10-12 perks you want the second you hit 70 so you wind up not picking anything for 15 levels to save up points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMeiya Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I don't need a motorcycle. I have a minibike. What I need is 50 steel for a shotgun. I only want a motorcycle. Even if I had 36 steel I wouldn't use it for that. Lets not forget steel arrow heads that I should have been able to make since I unlocked special bolts and arrows 48 levels ago. Like I said. There is no defending this. The recipes for these items need to change or steel needs to be made earlier. These are just wasted perk points. No other perk in the game is gated like this. Why do you need 50 steel for a shotgun? (Sorry I'm legit asking, I do not use shotguns ever) Iron arrows are very nice and easy to make, they've been carrying me far into the early 100's. You know what else are wasted perk points that early? I'll speak from a day 1-14 point of view. Things like Better Barter, daring adventurer, charismatic nature (For obvious reasons at an early level and charismatic nature is only for multiplayer ) Living off the land (Since you can't make iron tools yet ) Olympian swimmer (very little reason to go through water and I've noticed a huge decrease in large lakes) Salvage Operations (You aren't even at the phase where wrenching parts is necessary ) [maybe] The point i'm trying to make is there are several perks you won't put points into if you use common sense depending on your game stage. So you're saying you want a motorcycle , but wouldn't craft one if you had the resources? I don't understand the logic with this one. I swear to god if the perks for the perception and strength tree's didn't actually work until level 70, you people would be foaming at the mouth about it. The very second it happens to be something that you either haven't played far enough into the game to need, or your play style doesn't require, then people who mention how broken it is just need to shut up. There is a large difference between what those perks do, and what they aim to achieve, you're trying to compare a dichotomy of perks. It just doesn't work that way. Those are necessary to help survival, the other is a luxury, if you get lucky you can spend perk points accordingly. For the record, I always hated ammo being gated by the tool and die set. Which for some reason you need to also make steel arrow heads. Thank god the trader actually did have one of those. Good luck buying it though. He want's about 4000 dukes. I feel like there was a reason that they T&D set was not required to make arrow heads and bullets before. It is because we hated it. Seriously, crap like this wasn't even fun when finding it was the only gate. I do kind of hate that also because it seems that you might not find one till your lucky looter is at 5/5 which is pretty dumb, I haven't found one yet and i'm level 120. (with 4/5 ) You don't need to make steel arrow heads, you can survive off iron ones for a while. I'm still using them and since my perception level is high (8/10) I 1-shot standard zeds and can kill radiated one with compound bow (modded) and the sledge hammer (Also modded) The damage is nice, but you definitely don't need it absolutely, but I do think its dumb to require tool and die + steel perk to make steel arrow heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Why does everyone have this mentality that they need to craft everything? Steel can be harvested and purchased and found in loot. Level 70 isn't a grind, I made it to level 50 with the gimped harvest xp by day 18. Thats less than 18 hours of real time. There needs to be wants and needs, and there needs to be stages. Why is it a rush to get to end game in 2 hours? Anyhow we are most likely adding an XP slider so those who disagree with the default pace of the game can speed it up, or slow it down. We're looking at level gates too. We're making vehicle recipes ungated too, so anyone can build a vehicle, but it takes the perks to craft the parts. This will allow looters with low to moderate int to build a vehicle. To me its fun finding what I need. I don't like sitting in a bunker and making everything from 5 mats like in Rust. Needs give you purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 You also don't seem to understand how perk points work. If you do not spend a perk to unlock these items when they are available, and you spend it on something else. NEWS FLASH! You still need it! So no there is no choice to be made. You must work quite hard to come up with nonsense like that (really, I salute you). -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Steel can be harvested and purchased and found in loot. It wouldn't be such a bad idea to have one or two additional (rare) sources for harvesting steel. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Why do you need 50 steel for a shotgun? (Sorry I'm legit asking, I do not use shotguns ever) I need to be able to make a shotgun so I can put mods on it. The orange one I have right now is not doing enough damage to be able to live through these stupid trap houses they send you to on quests. I end up just having to leave. No, I will not just YOLO in and die. Stealth doesn't work because the enemies are on a volume trigger hidden in the friggen rafters. Because that makes sense. There is a large difference between what those perks do, and what they aim to achieve, you're trying to compare a dichotomy of perks. It just doesn't work that way. Those are necessary to help survival, the other is a luxury, if you get lucky you can spend perk points accordingly. False. There is no difference and they are not necessary. The only difference is in your opinion they are required. They are not. I assure you the game can be played without them. So it absolutely does work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipClaw Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 It wouldn't be such a bad idea to have one or two additional (rare) sources for harvesting steel. -Morloc Where can you harvest steel ? I know that ammunition boxes gives you sometimes steel and I believe it is a jack in the backyard of a gas station that gives you steel. Are there other sources where you can harvest steel from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfyBlah Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Why does everyone have this mentality that they need to craft everything? Steel can be harvested and purchased and found in loot. Level 70 isn't a grind, I made it to level 50 with the gimped harvest xp by day 18. Thats less than 18 hours of real time. There needs to be wants and needs, and there needs to be stages. Why is it a rush to get to end game in 2 hours? Anyhow we are most likely adding an XP slider so those who disagree with the default pace of the game can speed it up, or slow it down. We're looking at level gates too. We're making vehicle recipes ungated too, so anyone can build a vehicle, but it takes the perks to craft the parts. This will allow looters with low to moderate int to build a vehicle. To me its fun finding what I need. I don't like sitting in a bunker and making everything from 5 mats like in Rust. Needs give you purpose. Because some of us actually enjoy being able to craft things in this crafting game. You said yourself you were level 50 on day 18 Assuming default day length thats 18 IRL hours and you havent unlocked steel yet. Thats one hell of a grind. 20 hours of farming XP to unlock somthing is excessive for people who play for normal ammounts of time. Just because you enjoy looting instead of crafting what you need dont force that on everyone else. Why is it a rush to get to 'endgame'? Because ALL the early game is is the endgame with ♥♥♥♥ tools/weapons/skills. Thats not fun. - You know whats comical? That parting shot about rust... you are the ones who dumbed down resources and crafting and copied the harvest system from rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 You must work quite hard to come up with nonsense like that (really, I salute you). -Morloc Hey keep going mate. You realize being crass and patronizing is not a rebuttal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMeiya Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I need to be able to make a shotgun so I can put mods on it. The orange one I have right now is not doing enough damage to be able to live through these stupid trap houses they send you to on quests. I end up just having to leave. No, I will not just YOLO in and die. Stealth doesn't work because the enemies are on a volume trigger hidden in the friggen rafters. Because that makes sense. False. There is no difference and they are not necessary. The only difference is in your opinion they are required. They are not. I assure you the game can be played without them. So it absolutely does work that way. You do realize quality does not affect damage anymore right? (Just the amount of mods you can place on it) Your damage is affected by perception/gun perks and mods placed on the weapon itself. Almost any mod will increase damage, handling, durability even a DYE affects your damage. you do not need to craft one. I'm killing zeds with 1-2 Iron arrow and a compound bow that has been modded enough to cause 51 damage per shot, thats 1 more damage than a standard sniper rifle, thats VERY powerful that my iron arrows rival a sniper in damage. Arrows are very cheap and easy to produce as well, shotgun shells and other ammo are expensive to craft. However I do agree with you that the "HAH! GOTCHA!" moments are very excessive in nature since its practically every poi this is done in, I wish they would tone that down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dregonazure Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Why does everyone have this mentality that they need to craft everything? Steel can be harvested and purchased and found in loot. Level 70 isn't a grind, I made it to level 50 with the gimped harvest xp by day 18. Thats less than 18 hours of real time. There needs to be wants and needs, and there needs to be stages. Why is it a rush to get to end game in 2 hours? Anyhow we are most likely adding an XP slider so those who disagree with the default pace of the game can speed it up, or slow it down. We're looking at level gates too. We're making vehicle recipes ungated too, so anyone can build a vehicle, but it takes the perks to craft the parts. This will allow looters with low to moderate int to build a vehicle. To me its fun finding what I need. I don't like sitting in a bunker and making everything from 5 mats like in Rust. Needs give you purpose. whats wrong with the mentality of wanting to eventually be able to craft everything? its not like the game ends once you can craft everything you want. as an extra note, i also think rust does this great, unlocking the recipes in that game can feel very tense when you're trying to bring a rare resource back to your base to learn and you could lose it at any second if another player gets the jump on you. at which point you can then craft the item as much as you want/have the resources for and then use it against others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Why does everyone have this mentality that they need to craft everything? Steel can be harvested and purchased and found in loot. Level 70 isn't a grind, I made it to level 50 with the gimped harvest xp by day 18. Thats less than 18 hours of real time. There needs to be wants and needs, and there needs to be stages. Why is it a rush to get to end game in 2 hours? Anyhow we are most likely adding an XP slider so those who disagree with the default pace of the game can speed it up, or slow it down. We're looking at level gates too. We're making vehicle recipes ungated too, so anyone can build a vehicle, but it takes the perks to craft the parts. This will allow looters with low to moderate int to build a vehicle. To me its fun finding what I need. I don't like sitting in a bunker and making everything from 5 mats like in Rust. Needs give you purpose. LOL I am level 59 and I am on day 25. So more than 25 hours in. Listen to yourself. You literally just said that making steel isn't important to you so you don't understand why it is important to other people. In that vein then, I demand every single perk in the game not take effect until level 70. I was clearly not your original intention for steel to be gated so high. You knee jerked and made a change based on a multiplayer game and didn't account for all the down stream changes that would be required to support it. Then you realized your error and changed a few recipes, but still didn't fix the problem. Which is why there are so many recipes that require steel before you can make it. Instead of admitting that you made a mistake. You would rather just marginalize other play styles with the intent of also marginalizing your error. As if we care that you made a mistake. We care that you seem to be uninterested in fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dregonazure Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 the purpose in rust is to build up your base/fight other players and raid their bases. its all focused around pvp so you cant play rust like you would 7 days to die, learning recipes and gathering/crafting is progression there while raiding/pvp is the end goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 You do realize quality does not affect damage anymore right? (Just the amount of mods you can place on it) Your damage is affected by perception/gun perks and mods placed on the weapon itself. Almost any mod will increase damage, handling, durability even a DYE affects your damage. you do not need to craft one.. OMG Sherlock. Just how many mods do you expect to be able to put on an orange shotgun? Of course I understand this. I have tested a flawless shotgun with full mods. There is something like a 70-100 damage increase depending on if you are using slugs or not. Believe it or not, buckshot is actually better than slugs for close range. Slugs are better to stack with sneak damage. Once again. The reason I want it is not on trial. It doesn't matter in the slightest. The fact is I unlocked it ages ago and I expect to be able to use it. EDIT: I just noticed that what you quoted literally has my answer in the first sentence. I said I need a better shotgun so I can put my mods on it and increase damage. Then you go on to explain a mechanic that I clearly already understand as if I didn't understand it. I don't think it can get any more clear. You don't like steel because flawless master pimps don't like steel. "Steel baaadddd! Steel not required for Flawless pimp play style. No one need steel. No one need thing me no like.-R.I.P. Phil Hartman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Once again. The reason I want it is not on trial. It doesn't matter in the slightest. The fact is I unlocked it ages ago and I expect to be able to use it. -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Why is it a rush to get to end game in 2 hours? Why is Steel considered end game? Level 300 is endgame. Right? - - - Updated - - - To me its fun finding what I need.. Then why do you let us have every item in the game through perks, thereby removing the need to loot at all? A17 removed the fun of finding what you need. On day 30 I have everything. Top tier, full of mods with mods to spare. The game gave me everything. I have looted precisely half a town to achieve that., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMeiya Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 OMG Sherlock. Just how many mods do you expect to be able to put on an orange shotgun? Of course I understand this. I have tested a flawless shotgun with full mods. There is something like a 70-100 damage increase depending on if you are using slugs or not. Believe it or not, buckshot is actually better than slugs for close range. Slugs are better to stack with sneak damage. Once again. The reason I want it is not on trial. It doesn't matter in the slightest. The fact is I unlocked it ages ago and I expect to be able to use it. EDIT: I just noticed that what you quoted literally has my answer in the first sentence. I said I need a better shotgun so I can put my mods on it and increase damage. Then you go on to explain a mechanic that I clearly already understand as if I didn't understand it. I don't think it can get any more clear. You don't like steel because flawless master pimps don't like steel. "Steel baaadddd! Steel not required for Flawless pimp play style. No one need steel. No one need thing me no like.-R.I.P. Phil Hartman You can only put 1 mod on an orange weapon I think. Do you have to limit your viability to only the shotgun? I love my SMG/AK but ammo is too precious to waste on anything but horde night so I try to conserve if I can, only using the automatic weapon as a quick-switch to save my ass in a pinch or a zed gets a drop-stun on me. I love steel, but it isn't a game changer for me since I've played long enough to know how to work around not having it immediately , you do realize previously you had to be like level 60 or 80 to unlock steel in 16.4 right? It was gated then, why are you complaining now? Its getting difficult to have a conversation with you because you won't listen to anything anyone else tells you and when we try and give you other options or view points you won't look at anyone else's but your own, that's what we call cognitive dissidence, and you're quick to respond in a condescending manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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