Steel unlocks too late / in the wrong order

[Ghostlight]

I am not complaining about Steel coming too late in and of itself; if it has to be delayed to level 70 because that was the only way the devs could artificially lengthen the game fair enough, but it seems to come in the wrong order. Steel comes AFTER just about all the items that require it (Motorbikes, weapons, many mods). Sometimes up to 30 levels later. Feels dumb / a design error.

[Katitof]

Traders exist.

 

And you know well that the moment steel becomes available, it becomes abundant.

Its balance, you want steel tools earlier or firearms, invest some dukes into it.

[WolfyBlah]

Traders exist.

 

And you know well that the moment steel becomes available, it becomes abundant.

Its balance, you want steel tools earlier or firearms, invest some dukes into it.

 

That is the furthest thing from 'balance' ever.

 

Can you really not see the issue with needing level 70 to craft the resources to build a level 30 recipe?

 

Yes traders exsist, dosent mean we need ridiculous gates on things, not everyone uses traders and they shouldnt be forced as a part of the progression.

[Royal Deluxe]

That is the furthest thing from 'balance' ever.

.

 

This IS balance.

 

We can discuss for hours if it make sense to gate the good stuff.

This change not that recipes that need Ressources you can not produce yourself (at that time) make sense.

 

What make no sense is that the player can craft everything in Q6.

Lategame is really to easy economywhise

 

And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.

If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49

[FileMachete]

Madmole mentioned something about Steel being more available out in the world via scrapping/wrenching. I think anyway.

 

I can see the arguments from all sides here. It's a 'ding ding ding!' item. But it can also seem quite counterintuitive that so many recipes, that we _buy_ can't be completed without relying on RNG.

 

And I'm fully in the, "Don't make Traders -mandatory-!" camp.

 

Frankly I've been trying to avoid thinking about it. The Concrete Mixer gated to lvl 40 is bad enough already (we 'make' minibike at lvl 30). I've mixed concrete in wheel barrels, mortar in buckets, drenched a posthole w water then dumped in a bag of mix, etc.

[Corbit]

How about just making steel craftable from the get go but have it take a lot longer to produce and require more resources (more iron and also add coal). Perks could then reduce time and resources required.

[FileMachete]

<snip>And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.

If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49

 

Yeah, like A16, but this one is an easy fix; either set Duct Tape/Glue to "No Sell" or limit Trader Stack size so they won't buy up to 1500 rolls.

 

Edit: same can be done for Steel, so it's not a get rich quick scheme.

[HungryZombie]

That is the furthest thing from 'balance' ever.

 

Can you really not see the issue with needing level 70 to craft the resources to build a level 30 recipe?

 

Yes traders exsist, dosent mean we need ridiculous gates on things, not everyone uses traders and they shouldnt be forced as a part of the progression.

 

I don't see it sorry. Seems like they could just bar all steel tools then to lvl 70 then if allowing you to make things before you can forge steel bothers you so much. This way at least you can use steel for awhile if you can loot, buy or scrap it until you can forge it.

[Royal Deluxe]

Not because i would sell the duct tape.

Because all things that give really nice Money need this ingredient.

 

With enough Glue you can make tons of Compound Bows, Crossbows, Pistols, Rifles, Armor, .....

Even with the current low available amounts i made over 300 000 Coins before day 50

[dregonazure]

maybe they need to rework steel and how to obtain it? been playing rust recently and their version of steel is simply way harder to accumulate compared to ours (in that game say mining a rock would give you 600 parts of iron and then 1-2 parts of steel, forcing you to rely on other means to get more steel like breaking down what you find)

[manni44]

maybe they need to rework steel and how to obtain it? been playing rust recently and their version of steel is simply way harder to accumulate compared to ours (in that game say mining a rock would give you 600 parts of iron and then 1-2 parts of steel, forcing you to rely on other means to get more steel like breaking down what you find)

 

Builders will love that

 

I think u should be able to make steel around lvl 50-60 ish until they figure out what they want to do with the new skillsystem. At the moment its just a mess.

[FileMachete]

Not because i would sell the duct tape.

Because all things that give really nice Money need this ingredient.

 

With enough Glue you can make tons of Compound Bows, Crossbows, Pistols, Rifles, Armor, .....

Even with the current low available amounts i made over 300 000 Coins before day 50

 

ouch. ok, I got you now. that's not good. From what I've seen, but never past day 23 or so, there didn't look like any bad Trader exploits. Seems there are. Even w the max 3 of item X.

[WolfyBlah]

This IS balance.

 

We can discuss for hours if it make sense to gate the good stuff.

This change not that recipes that need Ressources you can not produce yourself (at that time) make sense.

 

What make no sense is that the player can craft everything in Q6.

Lategame is really to easy economywhise

 

And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.

If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49

 

No, this is balance according to you, gating crafting the base resources more than the complex things it can make is completely backwards.

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

I'm still feeling out the new system, but I do have a slight problem with it. I have dozens of guns (week one) and no way to maintain or upgrade them. I believe I am level 28. I even found a pistol book somewhere, but it is obviously not used to learn from now. I also have steel tools, some nice ones, and no way to repair them. Think steel axe, pick, and one shovel. So now I have to go for weeks hoping to keep finding them? Seems odd. Also, I have found maybe ten or twelve bars of steel.

 

Either way I am still giving this system a chance, but it feels very off. I am still in week one and have steel everything and no way to repair it reliably. Overall I am enjoying A17, but the crafting side seems to need some work, perhaps on the new skill system. Oh well, it's alpha and changes will come down the pipe as time allows.

[Kalen]

No, this is balance according to you, gating crafting the base resources more than the complex things it can make is completely backwards.

 

Not really.... it doesn't seem strange to me to imagine someone that can work with steel without being able to actually fabricate steel.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I'm still feeling out the new system, but I do have a slight problem with it. I have dozens of guns (week one) and no way to maintain or upgrade them. I believe I am level 28. I even found a pistol book somewhere, but it is obviously not used to learn from now. I also have steel tools, some nice ones, and no way to repair them. Think steel axe, pick, and one shovel. So now I have to go for weeks hoping to keep finding them? Seems odd. Also, I have found maybe ten or twelve bars of steel.

 

Either way I am still giving this system a chance, but it feels very off. I am still in week one and have steel everything and no way to repair it reliably. Overall I am enjoying A17, but the crafting side seems to need some work, perhaps on the new skill system. Oh well, it's alpha and changes will come down the pipe as time allows.

 

I also don't find this odd.... if I found a bunch of guns, I could certainly use them but wouldn't know the first thing about maintaining them. I'd learn eventually but at first, I'd just use them till the broke or until I found a better one.

[Royal Deluxe]

I'm still feeling out the new system, but I do have a slight problem with it. I have dozens of guns (week one) and no way to maintain or upgrade them...

Use the Q1 and Q2 guns, when they are broken scrap them

They do the same damage as a Q6, but cant hold mods (which make the Q6 stronger)

 

No more need to store huge amounts of guns, if you have enough repair kits and/or better guns you need not even one gun as reserve

[Katitof]

No, this is balance according to you, gating crafting the base resources more than the complex things it can make is completely backwards.

 

Ok then.

Can you make a sandwitch IRL?

Now then, can you make the bread? Flour? Yeast?

 

Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it any less true.

 

The balance is your own resource management.

You can have the tools if you looted/bought proper resources earlier.

 

We can now craft pretty much everything, it would be imbalanced if we had access to all the materials needed to do so too early, because then items that are supposed to be scarce at that level would become abundant.

 

Cry less and do quests/loot/buy from trader what you need.

 

You are supposed to use all these option for optimal play and refusal and denial about their use doesn't make it any less balanced then it is.

[Jamey]

I don’t mind that forged iron and steel are not available until after some of the recipes that use them. I think it makes for a more interesting lead up to hose level tiers.

 

I think that the recipes that use large quantities maybe should be moved to be the same level as the resource. The motorcycle comes to mind as a recipe that could be looked at.

[PoppaTot]

this is such an easy fix, if you have items that require steel at level 30 unlock steel crafting at level 30, simple as that. If you don't want us to rush into the steel tool age, keep steel tools gated, simple as that. Don't give us recipes that require an excess amount of steel in the early game and then say "now only 30 more levels and you can use that recipe! derp"

 

I have no idea why this hasn't been changed yet, or changed immediately when they made the recipes....

[Royal Deluxe]

I don’t mind that forged iron and steel are not available until after some of the recipes that use them. I think it makes for a more interesting lead up to hose level tiers.

 

I think that the recipes that use large quantities maybe should be moved to be the same level as the resource. The motorcycle comes to mind as a recipe that could be looked at.

 

Would hate that. I had in all games until now enough steel when i could make the motorcycle. Because i push for it from level 1 on.

 

 

Why gating it more ?

Wheres the benefit

[Katitof]

Would hate that. I had in all games until now enough steel when i could make the motorcycle. Because i push for it from level 1 on.

 

 

Why gating it more ?

Wheres the benefit

 

The benefit is called healthy gameplay pace.

Not all of the players are veterans of 5 years who just blindly rush to end game and min max everything to get there.

 

I welcome the changes that force me, as veteran, to go out of base and scavenge and build and that is one of them.

 

Plus, if you regularly visit traders, you'll never have problems with steel before being able to craft it.

[WolfyBlah]

The benefit is called healthy gameplay pace.

Not all of the players are veterans of 5 years who just blindly rush to end game and min max everything to get there.

 

I welcome the changes that force me, as veteran, to go out of base and scavenge and build and that is one of them.

 

Plus, if you regularly visit traders, you'll never have problems with steel before being able to craft it.

 

One word: Replayability.

 

Stretching out the game with level grinds or time gates or whatever else cripples replayabilty. If a player has to grind 50 levels in every new game they play... it gets old, fast.

 

Its not just a problem for those of us that have been around for too many alphas,anyone who plays will eventuly go 'i really cant be assed to grind 50 levels so i can craft this thing again.'

[Katitof]

One word: Replayability.

 

Stretching out the game with level grinds or time gates or whatever else cripples replayabilty. If a player has to grind 50 levels in every new game they play... it gets old, fast.

 

Its not just a problem for those of us that have been around for too many alphas,anyone who plays will eventuly go 'i really cant be assed to grind 50 levels so i can craft this thing again.'

 

You don't see replayability, I do.

 

Starting with different builds instead of ALWAYS going full crafting is not possible and viable option.

 

New AI ensures you can survive blood moons on cobblestone alone and the only thing you need int for now that you can't get otherwise are 3 end game vehicles.

 

For you its stretching the game out, for me its allowing me to take a different route.

Exclusively int is level gated and playing without more then 3 points in int is possible now.

 

If you feel like its too much for you to handle, don't cry for the progression to be dumbed down to the point where its non viable to play as anything else then crafting and just mod yourself what settings and limits you'd like.

 

Also, how many times you start over on average? I hardly doubt its more then 1 every couple of months, if you can't be arsed to "grind", then mod it out for yourself.

 

Also, stop ignoring the fact that "this thing" can be gotten much, much, MUCH earlier through quests, vendor or loot, depending on your very own choices.

Its not that you have to have certain level to get certain things, there isn't a single thing you can't have before unlocking it through int, except 3 end game vehicles. Its that you want to craft it yourself, while you most certainly don't have to due to other sources being there.

 

You no longer need knowledge to craft something to be able to repair it and there is zero reason to rush anything, unless you really have low patience and if you do, think again if this game is really for you, because you are complaining on a "grind" in a game that is made around grinding literally everything around you.

[BobTheBard]

The issue, Katitof, is that it currently is it still limits choice, it just limits it in the opposite direction. It means you have to find or buy the stuff since you can't craft it until a completely impractical level. I'll admit that, as a crafter, I really didn't feel any sense of accomplishment at getting steel because by that point it was so late in the game that we already had everything. Steel tools aren't significantly better than iron ones, the best melee weapon is made of iron, steel takes too long to make to be useful in construction, and all those guns we found (several high-quality) could be repaired with repair kits we could already make. The only thing I find myself really needing steel for is building vehicles, and even then it's because my friend really wants a 4x4 (I'm fine with my minibike). So steel, as it currently stands, is gated so high as to be effectively meaningless for a crafter.

[OnlyMeiya]

This IS balance.

 

We can discuss for hours if it make sense to gate the good stuff.

This change not that recipes that need Ressources you can not produce yourself (at that time) make sense.

 

What make no sense is that the player can craft everything in Q6.

Lategame is really to easy economywhise

 

And different to my meaning a few weeks ago, it make sense that Bones->Glue->Duct tape is so scarce.

If not you could have a few million Coins before day 49

 

The old steel was gated as well. If anything it was just about the same level.

 

Getting lucky and finding some steel or buying it from a trader, or if you know the game well, you can harvest certain objects to get forged iron and steel, and those are surprisingly abundant if you know where to look.

 

I don't see a problem with how it is right now.