Would people support scrap iron reinforcement being gated?

[Dimpy]

I've been writing up a fairly complicated Pimp Dream about a new perk idea I'm calling Scrap Lord, basically a cheap, corner-cutting alternative to the technology INT perks like Hammer&Forge and Advanced Engineering. One of the key aspects to making Scrap Lord work would be to gate the ability to reinforce wood with iron behind the perk. Before I apply the polish the thread needs to survive in the harsh, desolate landscape that is Pimp Dreams, I'd like to know if this is feasible. Is it something that wouldn't fly at all, or something that would be tolerated if it was handled well?

[Viktoriusiii]

If they go back to bookgates and redo AI, sure... Everything more than absolutely basics can be gated to give more choice.

But as is now NO! Wanna know why nobody builds out of wood? Because its pointless. Cobble is stronger, easier to get and looks better.

So not only gate scrapmetal but also stoneblocks (masonry).

 

BUT NOT AS LONG AS THEY ARE LOCKED BEHIND LEVELS!!! Otherwise I swear I will start a boycott, no matter if I can mod it out.

Levelgating fun is BAD. ALWAYS.

[Dimpy]

BUT NOT AS LONG AS THEY ARE LOCKED BEHIND LEVELS!!! Otherwise I swear I will start a boycott, no matter if I can mod it out.

Levelgating fun is BAD. ALWAYS.

Never said it was going to be gated behind levels. When I said gated, I meant it would be gated behind spending a skill point.

[JaxTeller718]

Damn, you said "gate". 90 percent of this forums spidey senses just started to tingle. Prepare yourself.

[Dimpy]

Damn, you said "gate". 90 percent of this forums spidey senses just started to tingle. Prepare yourself.

 

Well, I'm happy I approached this cautiously instead of jumping in headfirst.

[Doctor3D]

I would if wood was viable. I think we need a more expanded age system. Wood forts (read non-cheese ones) should be useful for say the first 7 days or so. As you progress with your gamestage the zombie's block damage should increase over time and you have to keep progressing your building material. Currently, wood and even cobblestone to some degree is all but useless. Brick is virtually identical to cobblestone so it doesn't even matter. By the time you can build brick you already see concrete on the horizon.

 

If the building progression was more logical and there was actually a nice series of tech progression in the material - I think it would be appropriate to put Iron in a gate. But for now, nah - no sense - iron is about the only thing you can do to a wood area to at least keep it somewhat sound until you can get concrete.

[OnlyMeiya]

Personally I don't wear heavy armor till later in the game,(where I can mod fittings ect to lessen the burden) (Ferals/irradiated/ect) I can't stand the huge stamina and mobility debuffs.

[FileMachete]

I wouldn't care except for one bit; allow the first lvl upgrade without a Perk. And mainly due to two bits;

 

1) SI. I'm sure some are leveraging the much improved SI of anything 'metal' to support bridges, etc.

 

2) Doors/Hatches. Might actually need to allow the whole tree without a Perk. I'd be pissed if I had to by a perk just to upgrade them.

 

Otherwise, to me, upgrading via the 'scrap' tree is really, well, dumb. The costs are way too high for the return. And now with the tedious time it takes to Upgrade blocks, you're better off, once you get a fireaxe at aleast, just chopping out the Wood blocks and replacing w Flag/Cobb.

 

Sry, not meaning to rain on your idea. TFPs have had a long time to address block progression/viability, and, at least to me, they haven't touched it. Hopefully they will.

[Teal]

Aside from weapons and tools, couldn't the paint tool essentially emulate a mad max junkyardish look for your base? It seems like what you're thinking of would cause a need to re-balance resource gains and potentially block values mid-game once the perk is chosen, unless a whole new set of blocks were gated behind this perk. I love the idea of being able to sort of choose a theme for the items you craft. At the moment, it seems more likely your idea will need to be modded in.

[Guppycur]

I'd rather they be gated by something that makes sense, like say, nuts and bolts, not magic points or levels.

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?99776-Khelldon-s-Modlets&p=903335&viewfull=1#post903335

[Royal Deluxe]

GATE IT

 

WE NEED A GATE !!!!!!!!

 

ITS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ME THAT THISsSs IS GATET

the lack of a gate disturbs me.

....

 

 

5 minutes later

....

You can upgrade wood with scrap ?

 

 

No for real, last time i used a scrapmetal block was in A14 or so.

So i have no real issue with that. BUT, if you need a Block with a high glue value to start your base there is no alternative.

So the question is, is it really necessary to gate it

[WolfyBlah]

I would if wood was viable. I think we need a more expanded age system. Wood forts (read non-cheese ones) should be useful for say the first 7 days or so. As you progress with your gamestage the zombie's block damage should increase over time and you have to keep progressing your building material. Currently, wood and even cobblestone to some degree is all but useless. Brick is virtually identical to cobblestone so it doesn't even matter. By the time you can build brick you already see concrete on the horizon.

 

If the building progression was more logical and there was actually a nice series of tech progression in the material - I think it would be appropriate to put Iron in a gate. But for now, nah - no sense - iron is about the only thing you can do to a wood area to at least keep it somewhat sound until you can get concrete.

 

Going to have to disagree here: zombies getting increased block damage over time is a terrible idea since the blocks thselves will reach a limt of how much HP they can have.

 

Not a very fun mechanic that: sure you can build defenses... theres just 0 point becauae everything will get broken.

[Royal Deluxe]

The horde damage (if not defeated) raise over time from 90k Damage to 240k damage (but completlky random on the question what kind of zombies spawned)

But 90k means you need a wall still >5 high (climbing zombies) and with 1000 Hp per block 45 blocks thick.

Thats this cant work should be clear

[HerrKingsley]

Well i dont Think we need more magical gates. As guppy said gates by items are better imo.

 

Secondly as mentioned above. Most building materials are useless. Because tfp started to balance zombies based on a broken material system.

They didn't properly balance players progression with gs and zombies blockdamage. Instead they raised blockdamage and speeded up GS basd on how fast players could make high tire materials.

 

Zombies strength should raise with gs

Scrap, reinforced steel should need lots of bolts or spikes. Or welding tool.

Flagstone, cobblestone should have a drying time of at least 2 days.

Concrete should have a daytime of at least 7 days.

 

And It should take zombies at least 4 min to break through concrete.

[HerrKingsley]

Going to have to disagree here: zombies getting increased block damage over time is a terrible idea since the blocks thselves will reach a limt of how much HP they can have.

 

Not a very fun mechanic that: sure you can build defenses... theres just 0 point becauae everything will get broken.

If it is handled by zombie types it wouldn't scale that much.

Normal zombies will take a long time to break through concrete.

Radiated are the only ones that can get through steel.

Gs controls amount and types. As it does today.

[kamer1337]

maybe lets gate building blocks at level 50...? jk

[Vedui]

No please no We should be removing gating, not adding on to it. There is already so much behind level gates that coupled with low/no xp for resource gathering/crafting/building means you gotta kill thousands of zombies just to get past them.

 

Anyhow, people rarely use it unless last resort, as cobble/concrete is much easier to get and leaves valuable iron for other things. Such as iron tools, metal spikes, dart spikes and defenses.

 

/V -

[Guppycur]

Getting is only bad right now because it is the wrong kind of gating. There are better ways to gate progression.

[Royal Deluxe]

Getting is only bad right now because it is the wrong kind of gating. There are better ways to gate progression.

 

Behind minigames ?!

 

Related questions the player must answer.

Like "how many carbon has steel"

 

If the player answers wrong the avatar dies !

[Viktoriusiii]

Getting is only bad right now because it is the wrong kind of gating. There are better ways to gate progression.

 

Sadly MM (and seemingly all other TFPs) do not get that there is a difference between levelgating, perkgating, progressiongating, storygating, difficulty gating and all the other ways you can gate something.

 

Gating isn't bad. It is necessary to guide player progression.

Everything is basically gated.

Be it a key that you only get after a long chainquest, a boatride that costs money, a perk that you only get after you have bettered the necessary skill, the new level you only reach after fulfilling the requirements or even just that there are monsters that are WAY out of your league and so on and so forth. All ways to gate/controll playerprogression.

LEVELgates are the worst of those... and only MMOs and hardcore PvP should implement it, as they are the easiest to balance.

[Guppycur]

They are too worried about people getting to end game too quickly, when it's pretty apparent they don't have time to play long enough to get to end game themselves.

[Weazelsun]

They are too worried about people getting to end game too quickly, when it's pretty apparent they don't have time to play long enough to get to end game themselves.

 

It definitely does feel like I having been leveling too fast in this version of the alpha.

 

Now, as for the topic at hand... I personally wouldn't want scrap iron to be locked behind a perk point gate. But, if it did add more additions to the idea I probably would be in favor of it. Like maybe if the "Scrap Lord" perk made repairing scrap iron blocks reduced in cost or something like that.

[WolfyBlah]

If it is handled by zombie types it wouldn't scale that much.

Normal zombies will take a long time to break through concrete.

Radiated are the only ones that can get through steel.

Gs controls amount and types. As it does today.

 

I mean that wouldnt really affect me so much, i edit out ferals, irradiated and football zombies every alpha anyway... not been a fan of gamestage since it was implemented, then again i have not been a fan of player levels either...

[myrkana]

Scrap Iron armor has no mod slots. The one time I made it I found this out and havent made it since. It's not worth being gated because the lack of mod slots makes it vastly weaker than all other armors in the game.

 

and im not sure the last time I actually used iron blocks for base building as it's not the greatest. By time I get around to doing that I have a cement mixer and am pumping out cement to upgrade rebarb frames or cobblestone.