Possible ways to replace Perk/skill system

[leaderdog]

I think by now it's no surprise I have no love for the perk/skill system. And I Know Madmole said he'd die on that hill.

 

But.

 

What if instead of perking up in skills to get better resource harvest there were other ways of doing it? While I don't want ho hum rpg type +1 to strength wearing these tighty whiteys, something more involved but equally believable.

 

so for example. Harvesting. Instead of sinking points into a harvesting skill:

 

get a quest or find a boom box (Stereo). Either it's not working, or you need parts or some quest the trader can send you on, and that can be a way to control it.

 

Now you'll need batteries for the stereo, so you'd have to find some (likely rechargeable) recharge them at your base with your solar array, they'd last a couple days of course of steady use.

 

Either you'd have to get some parts to repair it or maybe just the batteries, but once you have the working stereo you can turn that bad boy on and when you're mining, cutting trees etc it would give you 50% bonus to gathering resources. While adding a 50% (or whatever) draw for zombies - noise pollution - So it's a risk vs reward thing.

 

The zombies could come without making noise because technically hammering on the stone and the music would drown them out. So it would be dangerous single player, and it would be equally dangerous and fun multiplayer. While two people are cracking stone, the others could be killing zombies that are coming in at a fairly constant rate.

 

You're saying come on, who'd be stupid enough to crank music in a zombie apocalypse, Ya there's that.

 

But it's still more fun, more engaging, something to do, and a reward/risk for doing it than dropping a point into a skill perk system.

 

That's just one thought. I think that would be a blast. Curious what others think.

 

Also there's no end to what could be made... Just keep it semi realistic. I'm using the stereo aspect as people tend to find monotonous work (mining anything repetitive) more enjoyable with music. It's more on the believable side.

 

And you could get hints or rumours from traders if you find something, maybe he knows of a place that might help you find something to build whatever item you're looking to create that "perks" you in place of skill points etc. Or he can send you on quests where he knows parts may be and again, it's a way to control the flow of those types of bonus items.

 

Item can be at the bottom of a very challenging dungeon(house, military camp, power plant etc) POI. Don't base that on gamestage tho, base it on what level you think is necessary and put that equivalent of zombies in there. That way if you want to try it when you're not ready, it's your choice, rather than a hard lock out, can't do it because -levels-

 

1 - they wouldn't be necessary, but they are a bonus to get without having a skill tree.

2 - It's more content, and engaging.

3 - I think it would be fun. People could just go about collecting things for the challenge of collecting.

4 - gives more reason to utilize power cells, than just horde base.

 

So back to the hill that Madmole is currently on. If this isn't something they'd care to do then I guess us unskilled types look to the modding community to see if that's something they'd think would be a fun way to play the game.

 

So yeah, thoughts?

[Viktoriusiii]

I Know Madmole said he'd die on that hill.

 

 

Sadly all that needs to be said. Fallout fanboy (3&4 obviously. Not 1&2) forcing his likings on others... :-/

*70% negative reviewers are typing*

 

Well instead of giving feedback (sry) I'll add one more problem of perks:

they are either useless, as you can easily beat the game without most of them (25%stealth, immunity and more)

or they are mandetory, as without them everything is tedious (everything to do with stamina, packmule, nearly every int perk)

 

In A16 you had an intricate, gradual progression. You didnt feel getting better, but you knew it and finally, after working on it, you only needed 4 hits instead of 5. And you felt your training was worth it.

Same with tools and weapons.

 

What do you think feels more rewarding:

You magically go "boom, 30% more damage, 2 more mods, and 10 more stamina", because you killed 50 zombies.

or

having to use the gun, look for better parts, and eat well for long periods of time without dying.

 

Perks should ADD to this progression, not replace it.

Mods should ADD to weaponcomplexity, not replace it.

So yeah. If the game stays this way, I'll stay on A16 until mods are out to fix the boredom of this game... at least its still moddable...

[leaderdog]

as I've said many times, I'd rather see no skill system or perks. but there are ways to add perks like the stereo to improve gameplay because it's just fun to do. It's not necessary, you don't have to do it, but it gives you something more to do in game.

 

Perks, if they have to be there, should be fun, shouldn't intrude on game/immersion, and shouldn't be necessary. If you want to play a plain jane game, then you can, if you want to spice it up with 20% more head explosions, fine. But it shouldn't be pulling you out of the game. And having implemented systems like the stereo, to add enjoyment as well as a bonus, with equal threat of zombies for having done so. I think it would be a deeper involvement of play, if you choose to do it.

 

Alternatively, the perks could be offered by the traders, or specialists at the Trader. Which then either build up skill points from leveling can be spent on whatever perk trait they offer, bonus healing, bonus weapon training for damage, etc. These are skills and perks that don't pull you out of the game, they're part of the game, but again, it shouldn't be necessary.

[leaderdog]

I Know Madmole said he'd die on that hill.

 

Sadly all that needs to be said. Fallout fanboy (3&4 obviously. Not 1&2) forcing his likings on others... :-/

*70% negative reviewers are typing*

 

Didn't he also say he'd eat his beard at one point. Don't think that happened.... other than the small pieces that fall off when he's normally eating.

[Viktoriusiii]

Didn't he also say he'd eat his beard at one point. Don't think that happened.... other than the small pieces that fall off when he's normally eating.

 

"At the length of my beard, there are beardhair in my food every time I eat..."

yeah he weasled out of that one...

I know this is just a joke... but this gives me hope

not much... but just some...

 

 

and to the perks that you mentioned:

 

yeah they should be fun. BUT IMPROVE the fun. You shouldn't lock fun away.

For example limb dismemberment is currently locked behind perks that I probably never speck into. So they have removed fun for me.

Perks should INCREASE the chance of dismemberment, not unlock it.

They should increase the variation of stuff you can do. So instead of unlocking limb dismemberment, unlock head dismemberment (because it instantly kills zombies).

Instead of giving us a bit more damage, let us get more arrows back, shoot arrows faster, maybe give us piercing bullets/crossbows that hit zombies in behind (good for funneling).

 

I will give examples of good and bad perks:

perception:

Good:

all faster fire perks

bad:

explosive weapons (the only one is the rocket launcher)

Improvements:

give shotgun perk a "knockback" on closerange

piercing with rifles

head dismemberment on pistols

 

strength:

Good:

all of them (more or less)

Improvements:

knockdowns/stuns should hold longer

packmule should give less inventory, but the starting inventory is increased

 

fortitude:

Good:

pain tolerance (gives a special anti stun effect and added hp)

self medicated (well balanced, extra buffs and debuff reduction)

Bad:

every other perk

Improvements:

heavy armor doesnt slow down as much and gives a bit insulation

huntsman enables getting extra rare ressources (maybe ingredients for cooking, now that there are recipes, maybe antlers, teeth or other trophies that sell for good coin)

intrinsic immunity should also help with foodpoisoning

well insulated should give extra (multiplicative) insulation to clothing as well as slight armor penalty reduction

living off the land should not unlock farming. You should always be able to harvest at least one fruit, breaking the plant yielding between 0 and 2.

healing factor should also reduce injury healing timer as well as reduce time beeing stunned

 

agility:

good:

from the shadows (while stealth is currently broken, once its well implemented, this perk is well balanced and gives an extra silence to actions)

bad:

every other perk

Improvements:

cardio: make us run faster. just a bit. noticable, not gamebreaking.

light armor: see heavy armor

charging bull: give the player a chance to knock down a zombie if they sprint into them

parkour: the jumpheight is too much. 3 blocks is just insane. The idea is nice, but instead give 1/2 a block per perkpoint and lower stamina cost for jumping

olympic swimmer: remove it, that improves it. nobody needs this. nice idea, sadly useless.

ninja movement: less sounds while sneaking (walking, jumping)

hidden strike: if you kill a zombie while hidden, give boni to sneakspeed, be more silent with every action, and added bonus damage for 10 seconds

from the shadows: this should be merged with ninja movement.

 

intellect:

good:

better barter

daring adventurer

 

bad: all the rest:

 

Improvements:

charismatic nature: when solo, those effect apply to you (maybe lower amount a bit)

crafting perks:

remove. they do not add anything but frustration. they should be made books again, now that there are traders and vendingstations and quests. give bookstores a reason to exist again.

 

Add more intelligence related perks:

more material from scrapping

get slightly more from crafting stuff

tame wild animals

and maybe even other charismatic things, once npcs other than traders are in

[leaderdog]

"

 

and to the perks that you mentioned:

 

yeah they should be fun. BUT IMPROVE the fun. You shouldn't lock fun away.

For example limb dismemberment is currently locked behind perks that I probably never speck into. So they have removed fun for me.

Perks should INCREASE the chance of dismemberment, not unlock it.

They should increase the variation of stuff you can do. So instead of unlocking limb dismemberment, unlock head dismemberment (because it instantly kills zombies).

Instead of giving us a bit more damage, let us get more arrows back, shoot arrows faster, maybe give us piercing bullets/crossbows that hit zombies in behind (good for funneling).

 

I agree in principal. but my whole deal is, I don't want to see perks, I don't want to leave the game to study a screen that alters my existing play.

 

Those perks you suggested, for example: if it could be a shady visitor at the trader that you go and talk to and he says, "you know, for x amount of dukes (or call a skill point something else) I'll teach you how to bust a limb off a zombie easier. " Make him shady/sleazy/creepy, anything, but this guy has unique ways to dismember a zombie, maybe you don't want to know why or how he knows how to do this, but for an exchange he can teach you that "perk".

 

It's more in the moment, and it's you involved in the game. Rather than, a screeching halt to the game where you hit N and look over the perk list.

 

Also, it makes it so you think about whether you want to spend those points on this guys crazy offering or talk to a different person or specialist, to improve the fun of your game play.

[Viktoriusiii]

I agree in principal. but my whole deal is, I don't want to see perks, I don't want to leave the game to study a screen that alters my existing play.

 

Those perks you suggested, for example: if it could be a shady visitor at the trader that you go and talk to and he says, "you know, for x amount of dukes (or call a skill point something else) I'll teach you how to bust a limb off a zombie easier. " Make him shady/sleazy/creepy, anything, but this guy has unique ways to dismember a zombie, maybe you don't want to know why or how he knows how to do this, but for an exchange he can teach you that "perk".

 

It's more in the moment, and it's you involved in the game. Rather than, a screeching halt to the game where you hit N and look over the perk list.

 

Also, it makes it so you think about whether you want to spend those points on this guys crazy offering or talk to a different person or specialist, to improve the fun of your game play.

 

I think that was the idea before they implemented the first iteration of skills...

That there are learning by doing skills that you level by doing (who would have guessed) and perks that you could read up on or learn by interacting with npcs...

Sadly npcs and bandits are pushed down the line since 3-4 alphas... so I fear they will just stick with this boring, unimaginative, "click buy to improve your character" system.

 

 

I do like skills and perks in principle. This isn't purely minecraft sandbox. There should be progression and an early-mid and endgame.

But I totally agree that the way they reworked it is unimaginative and boring.