Weazelsun Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Asthma and copd from being a 2 pack a day smoker for 20+ years by how fast your stam drains. Why don't we have a skill for faster stamina regen yet? its needed, stick it in agility and I assure you people will take it. Well, there was originally the skill perk of Rule 1: Cardio originally it had a % of stamina regen while standing still or moving. Now in the current build it's a % of stamina regen while only running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadamier Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Right. Do you want to know why Im not playing anymore? Forget all the other complaints like diggers and perks and xp. Ive lost interest because I can not LIVE in my game anymore. Previously when you played either Sp or with others you could look forward to a night of living in your game. You want to go out and scavenge and risk everything looking for better weapons? Do it. You want to spend the night finishing up a part of your base, or rearranging some stuff in the base to make it bigger or better, cool. Maybe you want to go down to your mine and continue working on some ore. Relieve some stress, grab that pick and head down and have at it. Want to farm a bit, plant some seeds, drop some fertilizer and maybe increase the size of it. Ok have to head out and find some seeds to bring home so we can replant. Cook some food so we have a nice storage full of what we need? Sweet I'll go grab some animals and cook up a bunch of stuff. Now it's all level locked, it's all focused on killing zombies ONLY and a lot of the freedom to just BREATHE and live inside your charactor or your game is GONE. We used to build towns, and we didn't always go and find zeds we used to just chat with each other, or joke around. Or we would help out in the mine. This pictures up there? That is what it represents to me. Heart. Time. Now all we have is a damn RPG First Shooter with ALL of its heart and soul removed. I SO miss the days that those pictures represent. A scary intense ride with moments of refreshing busy work to help you calm down from the previous days killing. Pacing. A well rounded experience. Not an arcade style Fallout rip off with NO HEART. People dont have 3000 plus hours in this game from JUST killing zombies. I agree with you Jax! I mean - sure I do know that the AI will get dumber/dumbed down and all the 'tweaks' to come to 'fix this' 'improve that' but ultimately "we" play just to play together. At times we used to build massive bases, but now we really can't do anything like that because of the AI and zeds come and find you wherever you are... Many of us miss the just going down to dig because it was kind of cathartic, or a couple of the others also miss farming because that too was cathartic... That too is apparently why we might have to go without at least one player, possibly two. Then there's the generic "just turn the zombies off" or "just play in creative mode" or "just mod it out" responses but with at least A16.4 you didn't need to do that. Someone could just go down to their 'diggie-diggie hole' and dig to their hearts content. I mean my wife and another player within our group at A15 or so dug, dug and dug, and dug... For 3 sessions (1 session = one night maybe +3 hours if not more)!!! That was an entire months play since we play together as a group once a week! An entire month of them digging, us making fun of them, etc LOL... All of that is gone now. 2 like the way it currently is because all they ever did is kill zeds... Nothing else... But now there's more of a need to really play together, much more so than before - and some of us 'hard workers' are tired of having to harvest resources etc and want to go out and kill too... As a result that's fracturing the group... Oh well, we still got many other games to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger2013 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Me too, it really felt like spelunking and was almost a game on its own. We used to gear up and spend days and days exploring, setting up camps with forges to mine out areas, building scaffolding to cross chasms and make travel to the surface feasible. That was a huge loss imho. I agree, the cave systems added a lot to the game. Was there an explanation given for their removal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 You have voxels, SO USE THEM! Damn, i really have voxels, and thats on sylvester and no Doctor available today or tomorrow. I guess i drink a camomile tea and go to bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 I agree with you Jax! I mean - sure I do know that the AI will get dumber/dumbed down and all the 'tweaks' to come to 'fix this' 'improve that' but ultimately "we" play just to play together. At times we used to build massive bases, but now we really can't do anything like that because of the AI and zeds come and find you wherever you are... Many of us miss the just going down to dig because it was kind of cathartic, or a couple of the others also miss farming because that too was cathartic... That too is apparently why we might have to go without at least one player, possibly two. Then there's the generic "just turn the zombies off" or "just play in creative mode" or "just mod it out" responses but with at least A16.4 you didn't need to do that. Someone could just go down to their 'diggie-diggie hole' and dig to their hearts content. I mean my wife and another player within our group at A15 or so dug, dug and dug, and dug... For 3 sessions (1 session = one night maybe +3 hours if not more)!!! That was an entire months play since we play together as a group once a week! An entire month of them digging, us making fun of them, etc LOL... All of that is gone now. 2 like the way it currently is because all they ever did is kill zeds... Nothing else... But now there's more of a need to really play together, much more so than before - and some of us 'hard workers' are tired of having to harvest resources etc and want to go out and kill too... As a result that's fracturing the group... Oh well, we still got many other games to play. I can appreciate what you guys enjoyed about older alphas and see how it's harder (maybe impossible?) to do the same thing now. Hopefully the answer is some type of sandbox mode you can adjust in game to your liking. Creative mode or just modding it out seems like it is not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Those randomly generated caves were fun as hell. I remember going into caves and coming across holes that were pitch black, and you had no idea how deep or vast the cave would be, so you took a risk by building a pathway down with some wood frames, hoping you wouldn't fall into the abyss. And when you finally made it to the bottom you found a ton of ore making the whole journey worthwhile. But now days we can "jUsT mInE tHe SuRfAcE bOuLdErS, iTs EaSiEr!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yisiscreise Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Man, i miss the caves... And yeah, the devs are trying to make a fallout and its not a fallout :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackrook Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Everyone seen the huge cave(?) system in snow biome, Navezgane right? I cant say more as I think its the first "Plot POI" in the game. It could be the trigger for starting the, eventual, main plot of the game. The implications of everything in that POI area are too focused to be just a random quest POI. Yep huge mine type cave under a big house in the snow in Navazane, I've also seen two other slightly smaller ( but still substantial) cave POI's . SO there are a few out there. I would love more use of the vertical underground for caves but a few random generated 'natural caves' as well as more POI would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 We had similar such systems in our A11 game. ;-) I loved the gravel mines in A11. Unfortunately clearing all that empty space out made the game run horrible because we have no occlusion system. People above the expansive underground network of awesomeness were in an open plains field getting 20 fps with no obvious reason why. Hopefully we can see the return of the cool gravel mines or something even better. The cave system we tried was really cool but had the same problem, generation was slow and caused a lot of performance issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I loved the gravel mines in A11. Unfortunately clearing all that empty space out made the game run horrible because we have no occlusion system. People above the expansive underground network of awesomeness were in an open plains field getting 20 fps with no obvious reason why. Hopefully we can see the return of the cool gravel mines or something even better. The cave system we tried was really cool but had the same problem, generation was slow and caused a lot of performance issues. What's the hiccup for putting in a occlusion system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beHypE Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 I agree with pretty much all of this thread. Caves were amazing and a complete aspect of the game on its own. We spent hours scaffolding weird tunnels and holes to get to that juicy ore. Now it's all about them boulders, no fun. I'm enjoying the game a lot because I haven't put that many hours in it yet, but a lot has been lost because "everything needs a mathematic certainty" like Jax said. No randomness just calculations, whatever you want it's mapped out for you, and you can pick it up when you want to (or not, when it's gated). I don't see myself starting over after this playthrough, just because there's nothing that will be that different besides the location of my base and the POIs I visit. I loved the gravel mines in A11. Unfortunately clearing all that empty space out made the game run horrible because we have no occlusion system. People above the expansive underground network of awesomeness were in an open plains field getting 20 fps with no obvious reason why. Hopefully we can see the return of the cool gravel mines or something even better. The cave system we tried was really cool but had the same problem, generation was slow and caused a lot of performance issues. I'm pretty sure one of the last 5 alphas you added a feature that was that exact thing, occlusion. As in, it wouldn't render if it wasn't in the line of sight of a player. Maybe it wasn't working, but you had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackelmyer Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 You know it'd be pretty bad ass if A18 was bandits and an A19 brought back cave fun... With bandits... Just say'n... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zackss Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Diggers are here to stay Im sure so fine then. But couldnt we do underground threats in a different way? Gases? Air? Filtration systems? Imagine if you HAD to have an air system to the surface and zombies attacked THAT. Then people would complain because it would require looting and perks and workbenches and wouldn't be available by day 5, so the Pimps are "destroying their playstyle". I think deep underground bunkers would be a great end-game "safety" option (similar to having a bunch of electric fences and blade traps), but the people complaining about not being able to build underground aren't complaining because they want to spend 50 levels preparing their ultimate bunker. They want to be able to dig down to bedrock in the first week and then be completely safe from threats. If they just wanted to build a cool underground base, that option is already in the game, and if they were willing to put in the effort prepping traps they could even stay in it and ignore the blood moon zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Then people would complain because it would require looting and perks and workbenches and wouldn't be available by day 5, so the Pimps are "destroying their playstyle". I think deep underground bunkers would be a great end-game "safety" option (similar to having a bunch of electric fences and blade traps), but the people complaining about not being able to build underground aren't complaining because they want to spend 50 levels preparing their ultimate bunker. They want to be able to dig down to bedrock in the first week and then be completely safe from threats. If they just wanted to build a cool underground base, that option is already in the game, and if they were willing to put in the effort prepping traps they could even stay in it and ignore the blood moon zombies. You seem to know a lot about what other people want.... I know some types who aren't happy about digging zombies (doesn't personally bother me one way or the other), and they're on Day like 1000+ something on their 16.4 game. They were quite happy to spend time (waayyyyyy more time on a game than I would), they just would like to continue their mole-rat playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zackss Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 You seem to know a lot about what other people want.... Because: "If they just wanted to build a cool underground base, that option is already in the game, and if they were willing to put in the effort prepping traps they could even stay in it and ignore the blood moon zombies." The only way the underground lifestyle has been "destroyed" is that it's not trivial invulnerability anymore. Make a navigable path into your bunker and put traps along it and zombies digging is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Because: "If they just wanted to build a cool underground base, that option is already in the game, and if they were willing to put in the effort prepping traps they could even stay in it and ignore the blood moon zombies." The only way the underground lifestyle has been "destroyed" is that it's not trivial invulnerability anymore. Make a navigable path into your bunker and put traps along it and zombies digging is irrelevant. Actually, that's not the case, since the BM zombies will spawn, and path to you from their spawn location. If the algorithm decides that simply tunneling through the ground is the path of least resistance, that's how they'll do it. Still, the point I was making was, please stop, "assuming" (and yes, that is what you're doing) why other people want to be able to turn off digging zombies. Do I like underground bases? Not especially, but I know other players do, and I don't presume to know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zackss Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Actually, that's not the case, since the BM zombies will spawn, and path to you from their spawn location. If the algorithm decides that simply tunneling through the ground is the path of least resistance, that's how they'll do it. Each dirt block is 200 HP and each stone block is 500. A navigable path could be 0 HP (if you put enough traps) and unless you're only building a few blocks below the surface a door path will basically always be the weakest point. It's the exact same way you defend an above ground base, except all that dirt and stone makes it even easier to fortify your door and still have it be the path of least resistance. This is such a non-issue if someone actually tries to make it work rather than just complaining that the tiniest thing changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Each dirt block is 200 HP and each stone block is 500. A navigable path could be 0 HP (if you put enough traps) and unless you're only building a few blocks below the surface a door path will basically always be the weakest point. It's the exact same way you defend an above ground base, except all that dirt and stone makes it even easier to fortify your door and still have it be the path of least resistance. This is such a non-issue if someone actually tries to make it work rather than just complaining that the tiniest thing changed. Sounds reasonable.... just curious if you've actually tried it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjiro Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Diggers are here to stay Im sure so fine then. But couldnt we do underground threats in a different way? Gases? Air? Filtration systems? Imagine if you HAD to have an air system to the surface and zombies attacked THAT. Then youd be forced to come up and defend but you can still build a viable underground hideout. Im no fan of underground hiding but whats going on now was definitely not the answer. Been advocating for a system like that when we got A16 Electricity. It has so many possibilities including limiting underground digging beyond X blocks. Wants to go deeper then 5 blocks, you need oxygen. How do you get Oxygen ... * Air Bottles in your inventory. See Subnautica... * Air locked areas. See Subnautica... * Generators on top to have oxygen underground ( zombie magnets! So be sure to protect them! ). They can even recycle the electricity system but replace cables with pipes and have "powered/Aired" outlets that make a zone ( simply 360 bubble area for X blocks ) breathable. Finding a rebreather can be as exiting as finding a miner helmet. So many possibilities to enhance the gameplay. Caves: Caves used to be something magical. Dark, gloomy, dangerous but also the first spot of safety. You can into a cave, build up some wood frames for a quick wall that first night. A touch was a life saver. The few caves i have seen in A16/A17 are just small useless patches of nothingness. Joy: I think Jax got the right sentiment. 7D2D does not feel anymore like a world you want to live in. It feels like too much work non-stop zombie killing, point gathering, ... So many mechanisms got stripped out of the game or simply never introduced or altered in such a way it hurts. * Caves gone < Nitrate, coal, your first "safe" spot * Smell gone < That alone made your game exiting because you knew it drew in every zombie in miles. * Complex crafting, gone in favor of even more simpler resources and crafting. * Weapon parts gone * Degradation / Quality of engines / parts gone. * Map sizes smaller * Strong enemies like the behemoth. Never introduced. We got glowsticks *sigh* and ferals *yay* for assets reusing for 2 years! * Bandits. Never introduced. * Electricity stalled for 16 months with nothing new. * Sleepers supposed to make house looting exiting because you did not know if a dead body was a body or a zombie. Now everything is a zombie, with 30 zombies in a freaking house! We have gone from A15 zero zombies with some dead bodies, to A17 30 zombies in a house! It feels like 7D2D has gone from a exiting game, where you live in ( but was just lacking in mid to late content ), to a game where you feel bored fast, stuck in a repeating slow grinding pattern. For all the fuss the developers made about spam crafting, A17 is a hundred times more boring compared to spam crafting ( what most people not even did beyond X level ). Then people would complain because it would require looting and perks and workbenches and wouldn't be available by day 5, so the Pimps are "destroying their playstyle". Frankly i am tired of people making that stupid argument. Because that is what is it, stupid. I know no people that wanted steel tools by day 5 and hate the devs for blocking that. No! They hate gameplay that only focuses on gates and XP leveling to artificially limit your progression. 7D2D felt more free before, sure, you are able to rush to Steel in A15 but not everybody did that. If the devs put tool benches in as RNG books ( and the ability to reclaim existing tool benches ), fine, very few will complain but look at A15/A16 history. First they limit workbenches. Then they introduced workbenches in the world. When the devs notice people disassembling workbenches, they also put a stop to that. Now they moved this into perks that you need to XP unlock mostly with Zombie killing. So we go from a free system to a system that is locking in multiple ways. I have seen mod authors do a better job of limiting workbenches and other tools, that is more fun for the player then the 7D2D developers. That is the main issue... It has all become about numbers, stats, killing and not about finding things, crafting yourself, having fun. 7D2D has become 7D2Excel !!! The developers can say what they want but a lot of changes simply feel like a betrays to the core concept that was 7D2D before A16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 It's funny you mention Excel ... The spreadsheets are plentiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjiro Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 It's funny you mention Excel ... The spreadsheets are plentiful. Yea, because it feels like your spending more time thinking about your Xp, your perks points, how to unlock them, focusing on unlocking them then actually playing the game for fun. This is typical a syndrome you get with mmo type games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Yea, because it feels like your spending more time thinking about your Xp, your perks points, how to unlock them, focusing on unlocking them then actually playing the game for fun. This is typical a syndrome you get with mmo type games. The game, Path of Exiles, is definitely a min/max'ers dream. 7D2D isn't even close to that, which is good, although having a good idea of what you want to focus on before you start playing has benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger2013 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I loved the gravel mines in A11. Unfortunately clearing all that empty space out made the game run horrible because we have no occlusion system. People above the expansive underground network of awesomeness were in an open plains field getting 20 fps with no obvious reason why. Hopefully we can see the return of the cool gravel mines or something even better. The cave system we tried was really cool but had the same problem, generation was slow and caused a lot of performance issues. Thanks for the feedback. Are there any plans to make this an option? I didn't have any performance problems with the cave system, so if there was a way to turn that back on for RWG I would gladly do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPhillip Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Thanks for the feedback. Are there any plans to make this an option? I didn't have any performance problems with the cave system, so if there was a way to turn that back on for RWG I would gladly do so. -Same. I know I received a small FPS boost when they were removed but it was not worth a trade off of losing such an intricate, massive and fun part of the experience. I would also add that we're not even at the optimization stage yet so how do we even know how poorly anything is going to run until beta? Until all the features are added and work in conjunction? Too much is gone now and personally I would prefer going back to far simpler graphics and have massive hordes and city streets teeming with the walking dead that are weak but deadly because of numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I loved the gravel mines in A11. Unfortunately clearing all that empty space out made the game run horrible because we have no occlusion system. People above the expansive underground network of awesomeness were in an open plains field getting 20 fps with no obvious reason why. Hopefully we can see the return of the cool gravel mines or something even better. The cave system we tried was really cool but had the same problem, generation was slow and caused a lot of performance issues. I wondered why the caves hadn't made their way back yet. Hopefully some kind of compromise can be accomplished. Though... with digging zeds now.... not sure how much spelunking I'd want to do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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