Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[JaxTeller718]

I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Note that this happens every time. This is not special to A17.

Every patch and also the recent experimental release. A flashfire of negative reviews from a handful of people who don't like (insert change). A week or two tops and the episode passes.

 

From day 1 people have bought into a tower defense game and now some are even demanding that zombies should not be allowed to get to them if they employ the amazing strategy of being below the zombies.

A tower defense game where the enemies cannot possibly reach you is some serious schizophrenia. =)

 

Brother, I have been here a few years, and I have seen with my own eyes and experiences the reaction each Experimental and each Alpha received. And yes there have been moments, extended moments where people were upset about changes and were vocal but the overall feeling was NEVER this negative before.

 

If you keep thinking this reaction is just part of the normal Experimental/Alpha release Im telling you you are going to make a huge mistake here. A year and a half is a long time, gamers have grown, new games have come out and raised the bar even higher. There are WAY more EA games out there. Customers are way more choosy with how they spend their time now.

 

You simply can not dismiss this as just another round of Alpha noise. I have read every review, every post and every status update on this game for YEARS. Probably way more than the entire team and please please believe me and others when we try to explain that this Alpha has sucked the life out of your fans. People are playing, but no one is excited. Server populations are generally down among the smaller servers who usually see nice numbers. You have a real chance of losing a lot of very strong supporters here. VERY faithful fans who have never uttered a bad word about this game are doing so now.

 

Stop focusing on the people who are mad over diggers or better AI. Those aren't the customers who you should be worried about losing. They can adapt to those changes. The people who are upset over the core of the game being changed, the fun being removed, the complexity being streamlined, the overall pointless feeling this game now has are the ones who will walk and never look back. I REALLY don't want to see that fate befall this one. I've seen it before and it sucks.

 

This is not a handful of people.

[Guppycur]

Gazz is also forgetting that the complaining dies down because people simply give up and just accept the crappy update, too.

 

... continually hoping for the magic to come back.

[JaxTeller718]

Steam reviews? Really?

 

Listen I'm not saying you guys on the forums dont have some legit gripes. And im sure some of the steam reviews are legit. But come on. Who even listens to reviews anymore, much less steam reviews.

 

I have played countless games with bad steam reviews and loved a good many of them. Someone goes on steam and bitches about 7 days to die graphics or the fact it's been in alpha for so long, ignoring how hard the devs work on it or how much they care, and Im Supposed to take that seriously?

 

Fear the Night is getting killed in the reviews atm and I'm having an absolute blast with it. I can tell you now, every ones got an agenda and people need to think for themselves. And ffs dont take some randos review on steam seriously.

 

Fear the Night really is awesome. Bought it based off your video and Im not regretting it. Been spending HOURS in it exploring that world and getting lost in the zombie insanity.

[Viktoriusiii]

I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Note that this happens every time. This is not special to A17.

Every patch and also the recent experimental release. A flashfire of negative reviews from a handful of people who don't like (insert change). A week or two tops and the episode passes.

 

From day 1 people have bought into a tower defense game and now some are even demanding that zombies should not be allowed to get to them if they employ the amazing strategy of being below the zombies.

A tower defense game where the enemies cannot possibly reach you is some serious schizophrenia. =)

 

How can someone be so naive, dismissive and ignorant to say this? You never hit peak players like you did with A16, your reviews were never lower than 70% like/dislikes, discussions on the forums were heated, but AT LEAST in a balance with equal ppl defending what others criticise.

There are nearly no ppl who really defend the changes. And even those that say they like it are more casual players just joining the game, not knowing the glory of A16 (there are some who like the new one, but they are super rare).

 

Everything you have written in this thread was filled of ignorance and dismissal of very real concerns. If I see a game with <60% recent reviews, I stay away from the game, because the dev obviously fked up. How you can be so blind and compare the 75% positive reviews of A16 to the 30% of A17... blows my mind. Seriously.

 

*edit*

Gazz is also forgetting that the complaining dies down because people simply give up and just accept the crappy update, too.

 

... continually hoping for the magic to come back.

 

+1

[JaxTeller718]

Gazz is also forgetting that the complaining dies down because people simply give up and just accept the crappy update, too.

 

... continually hoping for the magic to come back.

 

YES! Guppy knows. And the reason why I think this time the voices are SO loud is because we have come to a point where it is getting obvious to some that maybe the teams fingers are not on the pulse of the player base and things are beginning to spiral. Its not unheard of for once great games to pick up the reputation of turning into a hot mess and losing its community. It's a very real occurrence, and its happened to a few other great games out there. And that is something that none of us want to see.

 

I mean, correct me if i am wrong but i NEVER once read anyone complaining about 16's perks and progression after 16 released to alpha. So WHY overhaul it so much? Was it really needed? And why couldn't this new system "fit in" with the older one. Expand, not restrict.

 

There were rumblings that TFP were looking to kickstart their new game a year back. Maybe thats the case here. Feature creeping stuff from the next idea into this one. It should have been called at 16 then. Fix the AI (which you dont need a complete progression overhaul to do) add the vehicles and update the engine and call it. Then set out on the next game. This feels too much like a series finale to a great tv show that speeds through plot points just to wrap everything up in a nice bow. You had it just about perfect with 16.

[hotpoon]

Steam reviews? Really?

... Who even listens to reviews anymore, much less steam reviews.

 

I do. Reviews are one of the first things I look at, apart from things like gameplay videos. For a long time 7DtD was 'overwhelmingly positive' for all time and recent reviews...and rightly so. Now, I see recent reviews are 'mixed'. As a potential buyer, that would be a red flag for me. I would then go and read those reviews to find out why they are not all positive anymore, and make my mind up from there.

[JaxTeller718]

I do. Reviews are one of the first things I look at, apart from things like gameplay videos. For a long time 7DtD was 'overwhelmingly positive' for all time and recent reviews...and rightly so. Now, I see recent reviews are 'mixed'. As a potential buyer, that would be a red flag for me. I would then go and read those reviews to find out why they are not all positive anymore, and make my mind up from there.

 

Great point. Dare I even say that more people read those reviews than do not. We are "insiders" so of course we can make up our own mind. But the general public is not and rely on reviews and streams to make up their minds. To be dismissive of those reviews is very foolish.

[Sergoros]

Steam reviews? Really?

Have read about planet explorer yesterday. Watched it on youtube, looked pretty interesting. Basically 7dtd on alien planet. Read the reviews. Something about devs basically abandoning the project. Decided not to waste my time on it.

[ktr]

People are playing, but no one is excited.

Really? No one? I wonder what this feeling is that makes me want to start up the game as soon as I get home from work. Sarcasm aside, like every other claim of 'the majority', 'most', 'etc', I doubt there are any players that can back up these types of sweeping claims.

 

Server populations are generally down among the smaller servers who usually see nice numbers. You have a real chance of losing a lot of very strong supporters here. VERY faithful fans who have never uttered a bad word about this game are doing so now.

I play with a group of friends or SP, so I can't speak to server populations. However, it's also entirely possible that due to the holiday(s) and the new Alpha that people are playing SP first or on private servers for now (especially since all the experimental builds required a restart). I'm also a huge fan of this game, and yes, I'd like to see some changes made to A17, but overall I think it's good.

 

The people who are upset over the core of the game being changed, the fun being removed, the complexity being streamlined, the overall pointless feeling this game now has are the ones who will walk and never look back

.

 

What complexity is gone? I've seen people mention the Quality changes and gun parts, but, I have to disagree. I never found those systems complex or particularly engrossing. If anything, sitting at the workbench and playing the 'two parts enter, one better part leaves' mini game at night was pretty boring. I get that others may have really enjoyed it, but that doesn't make it the greatest thing ever in gaming.

 

As for the core of the game being changed, I'm not sure what you mean. My playstyle and objectives haven't changed all that much and if anything, I feel like I have more options now than I did before.

[Poojam]

Steam reviews? Really?

 

Listen I'm not saying you guys on the forums dont have some legit gripes. And im sure some of the steam reviews are legit. But come on. Who even listens to reviews anymore, much less steam reviews.

 

I have played countless games with bad steam reviews and loved a good many of them. Someone goes on steam and bitches about 7 days to die graphics or the fact it's been in alpha for so long, ignoring how hard the devs work on it or how much they care, and Im Supposed to take that seriously?

 

Fear the Night is getting killed in the reviews atm and I'm having an absolute blast with it. I can tell you now, every ones got an agenda and people need to think for themselves. And ffs dont take some randos review on steam seriously.

 

Steam Reviews are my holy grail when deciding on whether to invest my time in a game.

 

Good for you. I'd take it VERY seriously that they released an Alpha update, and the approval rating dropped to 36%.

 

Well... that's like your opinion man.

[Kage848]

I do. Reviews are one of the first things I look at, apart from things like gameplay videos. For a long time 7DtD was 'overwhelmingly positive' for all time and recent reviews...and rightly so. Now, I see recent reviews are 'mixed'. As a potential buyer, that would be a red flag for me. I would then go and read those reviews to find out why they are not all positive anymore, and make my mind up from there.

 

I guess I live in my own echo chamber sometimes. I forget not everyone thinks like me.

 

Good on ya for at least reading the reviews. 7 days gets tons of hate for 3 reasons. The console port, its gotten pretty popular, people love to hate on popular stuff, and they have made massive changes. Changes I think are for the better but your going to piss off a lot of longtime players. If I never played the game and today decided not to buy based on reviews I'd be missing out on my favorite survival game of all time. And yes, that includes alpha 17.

[Ornias]

I have certainly got my money's worth out of this, but at this point it's...boring. Can't play for more than an hour without quitting now. Never thought I would spot a crack a book and think, meh, not worth looting. Walked out of a Shotgun Messiah with 8 guns where older Alpha's I was very happy to find 1. I may just have to go back to 12 where I started and play in the caves.

[Kage848]

Great point. Dare I even say that more people read those reviews than do not. We are "insiders" so of course we can make up our own mind. But the general public is not and rely on reviews and streams to make up their minds. To be dismissive of those reviews is very foolish.

 

My point is the internet hates. Best to ignore it. TFP need to make the game they want to make.

 

Glad your liking Fear the Night. It's awesome. Lots of hate on there steam reviews.

[Viktoriusiii]

Really? No one? I wonder what this feeling is that makes me want to start up the game as soon as I get home from work. Sarcasm aside, like every other claim of 'the majority', 'most', 'etc', I doubt there are any players that can back up these types of sweeping claims.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/251570/7_Days_to_Die/#app_reviews_hash

30% positive reviews (look at the recent tab and look at the last 5 days, not the last 30)

 

this should give an indication.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

My point is the internet hates. Best to ignore it.

 

but not without reason. Not every reason is justified, but 30% positive reviews are not just on a "whim".

I don't hate for the sake of hating. They made the game worse in a lot of aspects... still a good game, just less so than A16 and ability to mod back certain aspects is gone as well.

[Sergoros]

My point is the internet hates. Best to ignore it. TFP need to make the game they want to make.

 

Glad your liking Fear the Night. It's awesome. Lots of hate on there steam reviews.

 

I usually check on HOW MUCh internet hates. When I read reviews, I mostly ignore positive, cause they are often written with rose tinted glasses. I go straight for negative reviews and check on How bad they are. If this is just pure hate, then I usually ignore the review. But if I see people being disappointed, sadly explaining on how their hopes were betrayed...yeah, better stay out of such projects.

[oceanne]

the overall feeling was NEVER this negative before.

that's some recency bias right there

 

I have read every review, every post and every status update on this game for YEARS. Probably way more than the entire team

unlikely that you've read more than the people they pay to read the forums for them but i mean sure

 

and please please believe me and others when we try to explain that this Alpha has sucked the life out of your fans

yikes it's almost like people like different things

 

as someone who chronically picks up and drops games, i've picked up a17 and rolled back in with gusto. i was fussed during the brief stint where gathering/mining/etc didn't get the xp i needed to keep pace with my friends, but now i'm 5 levels and 10 game stages higher than them because i gather while they're shooting zombies. i'm pretty sure one of them is going to murder me before horde night just to lower my game stage /shrug

 

VERY faithful fans who have never uttered a bad word about this game are doing so now.

mmmmm dat recency bias again

 

The people who are upset over the core of the game being changed

the core of the game is still shoot zombies, build stuff, build better stuff, build better stuff to shoot zombies better, shoot zombies real good and that hasn't changed. the menu options are different, how you get stuff is different, but the core hasn't changed.

 

maybe you just need a different zombie shooting game?

[PoppaTot]

I don't know what you're talking about.

 

Note that this happens every time. This is not special to A17.

Every patch and also the recent experimental release. A flashfire of negative reviews from a handful of people who don't like (insert change). A week or two tops and the episode passes.

 

From day 1 people have bought into a tower defense game and now some are even demanding that zombies should not be allowed to get to them if they employ the amazing strategy of being below the zombies.

A tower defense game where the enemies cannot possibly reach you is some serious schizophrenia. =)

 

Why is condescending a portion of your player-base a standard structure of your responses? Is this normal business practice for TFP Devs?

[meganoth]

How can someone be so naive, dismissive and ignorant to say this? You never hit peak players like you did with A16, your reviews were never lower than 70% like/dislikes, discussions on the forums were heated, but AT LEAST in a balance with equal ppl defending what others criticise.

There are nearly no ppl who really defend the changes. And even those that say they like it are more casual players just joining the game, not knowing the glory of A16 (there are some who like the new one, but they are super rare).

 

I know A16 and I like A17 much better. In fact I'm so long on this forum that I voiced my opinion often enough. And since the game goes into a direction I like, I don't need to post my opinion 10 times a week. I even remember you harping on about what a sh** A16 is and now you defend the GLORY of A16?!

[ktr]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/251570/7_Days_to_Die/#app_reviews_hash

30% positive reviews (look at the recent tab and look at the last 5 days, not the last 30)

 

this should give an indication.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

but not without reason. Not every reason is justified, but 30% positive reviews are not just on a "whim".

I don't hate for the sake of hating. They made the game worse in a lot of aspects... still a good game, just less so than A16 and ability to mod back certain aspects is gone as well.

 

 

To start, I am not saying this to be dismissive or argumentative, some people find reviews (be it games, movies, etc) to be helpful. I am, generally, not one of them. Nor do I think they are indicative of the population on the whole. Scrolling through some of those reviews, I see several "why is this is still in Alpha", and a couple of complaints about the forums/forum moderation. I don't care that the game is still in Alpha and forum moderation doesn't impact my gameplay at all. And there's a few in there are complaining that it's a sandbox, survival game. How many are left that actually critique A17 and how many of those are more than 'the game changed'?

 

Secondly, this Alpha hasn't been out that long in a stable format. It might turn out that in the end, you're correct and most people hate it, but IMO it's way too soon to say that with any certainty.

[Viktoriusiii]

that's some recency bias right there

 

too lazy to respond to more right now...

but no. every graph shows this pretty clearly. 30% positive reviews (at its lowest it was about 70%), lower player numbers than A16 (when previously EVERY alpha had major jumps in playernumbers compared to the previous iteration)

 

So yeah... lets see if the recent reviews will continue and if they will continue to tell us its just overreaction.

[Viktoriusiii]

It might turn out that in the end, you're correct and most people hate it, but IMO it's way too soon to say that with any certainty.

But its getting dismissed. That is my main problem.

Maybe its not 30% who really like it, but there definatly IS a problem. And I don't know which reviews you read, but nearly all negative reviews I read (recent) are talking about the game changing in a direction they dislike and it beeing not fun to play anymore.

This might vary, but still. Those reviews you mentioned were always there and it was still 80% positive.

 

Might be confirmation bias, but I prophecised this weeks ago when the first alphas hit. And the majority of forum users jumped me saying "its experimental" and "give it time". And I saw that no balancing and fixing could undo what they broke. They might patch it up, but learning by doing is GONE. And it was my prime motivation to keep playing ever since its introduction. And there is no way to "patch" that.

Same with gunparts. The only reason to continue after day 90 was to build huge bases and to finally find a part to replace your 587 sniper barrel.

And there are sooo many more issues that HAD to be fixed before releasing it to the public. But they descided that the wintersales were worth more than a happy playerbase, as this update is close to beeing the last alpha. Economic short term sure. But not in the players best interest.

 

And gazz' dismissal of reviews just highlights this issue.

Not everyone gives a damn about reviews. But a large majority DO. (I for instance only read bad reviews to see what is wrong with the game, evaluate if its reasonable to give the game a chance and try it myself. I don't care about positives, as they are easily faked or just casuals who "kinda liked it".)

[Laz Man]

Good. Please add it to the list of known bugs and make allowing more than one a high priority.

 

 

 

Strafing speed significantly reduced.

Backpedaling removed.

Running while reloading removed.

Stamina greatly reduced.

Ladder movement speed greatly reduced.

Crouching doesn't crouch anymore.

Encumbrance added to slow you down.

Jumping/punching etc cost more stamina.

Stamina is reduced by consumables rather than being a fixed pool.

Not being able to cancel a reload in progress by switching items.

Building/upgrading blocks is significantly slower.

 

I dare you to load up A16.4 and run around, reload, strafe, hop around, fire your gun like a mad man. After 2 minutes you will feel like a cow that was just let out of the barn in the first week of spring after having played A17.

 

 

 

I'm not opposed to having A death penalty. It does matter a lot in PVP though, and primarily because of it's detrimental effect on your inventory space.

 

Often times when you get killed and you want to seek revenge. By god, you want to hunt that guy down and get your stuff back and take his! This is the point... But now that you have died you are running back to face your opponent with gimped stamina, reduced inventory space, and lost attributes that reduce your DPS. In A16.4 you just took a minor ding to your wellness, which was enough to get you to not be too cavalier to successive deaths because it took time/consumables to rebuild and lower HP meant not being able to resist as much damage. Your ability to inflict damage wasn't really nerfed though, and you could get away with your gear if you were successful. When fighting a team of opponents, sometimes your teammates could keep them occupied long enough to get back to your bag to get your stuff back.

 

The effect is that the aggressor is now effectively "buffed" while you are on cooldown. This can lead to a circular loop of your poo getting pushed in. And even if you do manage to kill the opponent to get your stuff back, your inventory space is gimped so you can't carry it all away to safety.

 

I just see older, leveled players pushing newbie's poo in repetitively and a lot of quiting happening because of it. It was already a major source of butthurt for those unacquainted to the PVP lifestyle by just losing their stuff. Making it hurt more and be more difficult to fight back is only going add fuel to the outrage.

 

Tweaking the current death penalty to not nerf the inventory space would be fine. Making it not apply on a player vs player kill would be fine. Or simply adding a server variable for the duration of the death penalty would fix this for all. There has been a lot of talk over the last 6 weeks about how some like it, but think it should only apply for 5 minutes. Some want it for 60 minutes. Make the default your 30 minutes, but allow for 0.

 

 

 

An option would be good. A scalar representing their effectiveness would be even better. The scalar could be a linear multiplier compounded against their hand's effectiveness against earth, sand, stone and destroyed stone from 0 to X. Or perhaps it could be based on their sensing range. I actually agree with a lot of the people that advocate for the ability for zombies to be able TO dig, just not this well. They can sense you at any depth and will excavate 40 stone in a matter of one night. Digging a 3 deep hole and putting sand over your head is too easy of a way to avoid conflict, as has been argued. I would much rather it be balanced to require you to dig a shaft 10-20 blocks deep to avoid being sensed by zombies. Then if you had forges/equipment running, it would require you to be deeper to avoid detection.

 

 

 

That is not the message that has been relayed to people voicing these opinions for the last 6 weeks. Glad it is now though.

 

All really good points poo. I dont play multiplayer pvp but can relate to what your saying. Alot of the changes in A17 have a huge impact on the flow of multiplayer pvp games.

 

New players are probably even more at a disadvantage because the ramp up in abilities is slower in general.

 

The death penalty is a good idea for SP and COOP but for pvp, the way it is now it is not balanced. Mainly because of the base raiding aspect of pvp.

 

I hope you continue to bring up these relative examples as it looks like it helps MM understand better.

[Guppycur]

First, I like gazz, but idgaf about how he responds to a post. I don't feel he needs to respond a certain way because he has a dev tag. Same with Roland.

 

Second, reviews ARE full of hate... The trick is reading them to find the why... Once you dismiss the nut job ones then you get a clear picture of what's wrong.

 

Third, I don't think the business is going to lose cash over these changes... Hell, all the people against the changes? They got our money already. I'm not going to fool myself into believing that if I stop playing, tfp will burn. No hubris here.

 

Those things being said however, I'm not a fan of a17 being so rpg heavy.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Re PvP, y'all just need a unified mod...

 

Too bad the six of you that PvP don't mod.

[Dunkurtin]

I even remember you harping on about what a sh** A16 is and now you defend the GLORY of A16?!

 

That just goes to show how bad this patch really is if someone who hated A16 now remembers it fondly in comparison...

[ktr]

But its getting dismissed. That is my main problem.

Maybe its not 30% who really like it, but there definatly IS a problem. And I don't know which reviews you read, but nearly all negative reviews I read (recent) are talking about the game changing in a direction they dislike and it beeing not fun to play anymore.

This might vary, but still. Those reviews you mentioned were always there and it was still 80% positive.

 

Might be confirmation bias, but I prophecised this weeks ago when the first alphas hit. And the majority of forum users jumped me saying "its experimental" and "give it time". And I saw that no balancing and fixing could undo what they broke. They might patch it up, but learning by doing is GONE. And it was my prime motivation to keep playing ever since its introduction. And there is no way to "patch" that.

Same with gunparts. The only reason to continue after day 90 was to build huge bases and to finally find a part to replace your 587 sniper barrel.

And there are sooo many more issues that HAD to be fixed before releasing it to the public. But they descided that the wintersales were worth more than a happy playerbase, as this update is close to beeing the last alpha. Economic short term sure. But not in the players best interest.

 

And gazz' dismissal of reviews just highlights this issue.

Not everyone gives a damn about reviews. But a large majority DO. (I for instance only read bad reviews to see what is wrong with the game, evaluate if its reasonable to give the game a chance and try it myself. I don't care about positives, as they are easily faked or just casuals who "kinda liked it".)

 

Just a quick look through the day with the highest # of negative reviews (about 50) - at least three about forum/forum moderation/general community. About a dozen that were 'I hate this' and nothing much else, 20 ish about performance. So, out of about 50 review roughly 15-20 addressed the new game systems in place and even those were, from my brief read, inconclusive - what one person hated, someone else liked. Although stamina seems to be the most consistent complaint.

 

Performance IS an issue and a legitimate one IMO, but being rightly unhappy with game crashes and low frame rates =/= hating the other game changes. So, if that trend follows and roughly less than half are about actual game play changes, then no, I don't consider them a big indication of 'failure'. Like, I said, that could change for the worse and might, but it also might not. There are too many other factors at play for me to say.

 

 

Did they release it too soon? Maybe. There are some bugs that need fixing (like the floating POIs), but I can play the game fairly smoothly on my less than ideal laptop. So, perhaps I'm one of the few people that it just doesn't bother.

 

As far as the gun parts go - I personally, hated them, and so did the people I play with. We all found it tedious and in my SP games I often ignored guns all together until I had enough looting levels to just find good ones and not have to deal with the parts very often. I much prefer finding full guns and not having to constantly play part swap. I enjoy looting far more now than I did in A16 for a number of reasons. I do feel bad for the people who enjoyed it. It sucks to lose something you enjoy, my only point is that does not mean the game is broken.