Steam reviews - I kinda figured

[R0bb0b]

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[madmole]

For the last 5 years you could survive (ya know, the goal of the game) by hiding underground. Now you can't, and some players don't like being forced to play TFP want them to play the game. At it's core, it's the idea that you can invest time into building a secure area below ground and reap the reward of being able to dictate when you engage the zombies threat. Similar thing is true about base building, which they seem hellbent on destroying the ability to passively defeat the bloodmoon wave as well. Why can't I survive by investing all my time into mining and building a mega base with spikes, turrets, blackjack and hookers and let them do all the work for me? No.... TFP say. We must make the zombies into concrete eating machines that will bore a hole through your base so that you have to fight.

 

When the subject is broached on underground, they don't even seem to want to meet us halfway and allow them to sense you to 10 or 20 meters but not at greater depths. Or go into the discussion of heat generation in combination of depth. They even reduced the depth of bedrock to ensure their balancing of zombie sensitivity on the surface wasn't hindered.

 

They don't even seem to understand the nature of the problem with base building.

 

The tower defense style choices for how to survive have been greatly diminished, because they think we're playing the game wrong. We're looking around going, what game have you been playing for the last 5 years?

 

This is complete bs. In alpha 8-11 zombies dug under ground, under your base, and shredded forts.

[madmole]

How is running a server impacted by digging zombies?

[Gazz]

One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.

Just look at the the total number of reviews!

 

The ones who have an axe to grind for whatever reason see it as a way to "get back at" the developers while there is no real incentive for the content players to write a review.

 

And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)

 

 

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

Or the other way around. You know what I mean, right? Can fish legally buy the game?

The point is that you're dealing with a tiny subset of the player base. Anyone proclaiming the be the voice of the majority is flat out guessing because the majority is simply not here.

[Eyegore]

I've played over 1,000 hours, 90% of that single player, and I've killed literally thousands of zombies, 90% of them with a wooden club, spiked or otherwise. I set up bases on rooftops for the first couple weeks, then underground when a lot of zombie start running in the daytime.

 

TFP's vision, while previously focused on single-players like me, now seems focused on satisfying groups of player killer PVP folks who go in guns blazing to shoot everything that moves. That's just not how I play it, and I know there's a lot of people who enjoy the single-player game just as I do.

[Poojam]

One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.

Just look at the the total number of reviews!

 

The ones who have an axe to grind for whatever reason see it as a way to "get back at" the developers while there is no real incentive for the content players to write a review.

 

And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)

 

 

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

Or the other way around. You know what I mean, right? Can fish legally buy the game?

The point is that you're dealing with a tiny subset of the player base. Anyone proclaiming the be the voice of the majority is flat out guessing because the majority is simply not here.

 

That's why Steam lets you search by review date. It's particularly valuable since the game has been publicly released for so long. Look at the reviews since A17 stable dropped. ~36% are positive....

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

This is complete bs. In alpha 8-11 zombies dug under ground, under your base, and shredded forts.

 

Not to the degree they do now. And A12 released in July of 2015. That's only 3.5 years ago, not 5. My bad.

[ArcticPrism]

One of the problems I see with zombie block damage is that it was increased for A15/16 playstyles in mind but then the new progression system came with A17 and now the damage is seen as a problem, particularly in the early game. The progression system slows down how fast you can unlock study materials and the rate at which you can acquire materials is also reduced because tool effectiveness was also nerfed early game to account for perks and mods.

[Randomdude]

One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.

Just look at the the total number of reviews!

 

The ones who have an axe to grind for whatever reason see it as a way to "get back at" the developers while there is no real incentive for the content players to write a review.

 

And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)

 

 

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

Or the other way around. You know what I mean, right? Can fish legally buy the game?

The point is that you're dealing with a tiny subset of the player base. Anyone proclaiming the be the voice of the majority is flat out guessing because the majority is simply not here.

 

Ignorance is bliss.

[Viktoriusiii]

This is complete bs. In alpha 8-11 zombies dug under ground, under your base, and shredded forts.

 

I know this might surprise you, but alpha 12 was released 3.5 years ago.

So no not for the last 5 years... only for 3 1/2. which doesnt change the point of poojam at all.

[LuckyStar]

The changes to the biomes was unnecessary and an extremely poor decision, maps look like bland garbage now. As a server operator, the digging zombies is a #*()$ nightmare, I have cancelled my bluefang subscription and will not be hosting another 7dtd server until this mess of a decision is fixed. Optimization has steadily got worse with every alpha, multiplayer aspect has always been on the back burner and the digging zombies just ♥♥♥♥ all over MP servers, players and expecially server operators. It is so easy to grief people using zeds now, it is no fun, point blank. Land claims are useless when you can have zeds undermine your foes base.

 

I could go on and on and on, but no need, I'm not here to knock the devs, but I certainly want them to know that THIS is the alpha that killed the game for me, as a player and a server operator.

 

- RWG is nowhere near done so I'm holding off on judging Biomes.

 

- RWG is nowhere near done so I'm holding off on judging Maps/Road/Towns/etc.

 

- Digging zombies should replace whatever they dig with dirt or destroyed stone.

You're right, on a server it's just no good.

 

I can understand your frustration.

There's still work to be done with A17.

[Arrek]

One thing to keep in mind is that the number of reviews for any game is from maybe 1-2% of the players.

Just look at the the total number of reviews!

 

 

This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players.

 

Really not trying to be argumentive here, but sales do not equal current players. We have tools like steam charts and the steam achievements themselves to see just how many people are currently playing, and how many have bought and never played or stopped playing. I would argue therefore that this is'nt as small a minority as you claim. Just having a quick look at global achievements:

 

59.2% have ever made a stone axe.

30% have killed 10 zombies.

13.5% with a score of 500 or more in a game.

 

I think its safe to assume that with statistics like those a lot of these guys either did'nt play long or have'nt played much yet, I don't know what your sales figures are but those percentages are low for being such easy things to do in game.

[JaxTeller718]

 

And if I see a negative review after 300 hours played? Hmm. Looks like an interesting game. =)

 

You just shelf life'd your game at around 300 hours when some of us have over 4k hours and are just NOW disappointed.

The fact that none of you see this as an issue is the biggest problem here. You seem to think most of us are just having a knee jerk reaction, or that we are overreacting. You're not actually seeing the bigger problem, and that is for years you have had loyal supporters who white knighted every single thing (myself included) you did but this Alpha has managed to turn even THOSE loyalists away from your game.

 

This isn't about some rook with 90 hours quitting, or a new player being thrown by negative reviews. The overwhelmingly negative response is real. There's a thing called "trending". And ignoring those trends is foolish. You are trying to take some imaginary "majority of players never write a review" faction and banking on those numbers being MORE loyal and more accepting of these changes. Truth is for every person who is happy and does not review, there's another who is just as upset and uninstalls and leaves NO review. That pendulum swings both ways.

 

The numbers will tell the story though. A month from now, a year from now.

[Randomdude]

You just shelf life'd your game at around 300 hours when some of us have over 4k hours and are just NOW disappointed.

The fact that none of you see this as an issue is the biggest problem here. You seem to think most of us are just having a knee jerk reaction, or that we are overreacting. You're not actually seeing the bigger problem, and that is for years you have had loyal supporters who white knighted every single thing (myself included) you did but this Alpha has managed to turn even THOSE loyalists away from your game.

 

This isn't about some rook with 90 hours quitting, or a new player being thrown by negative reviews. The overwhelmingly negative response is real. There's a thing called "trending". And ignoring those trends is foolish. You are trying to take some imaginary "majority of players never write a review" faction and banking on those numbers being MORE loyal and more accepting of these changes. Truth is for every person who is happy and does not review, there's another who is just as upset and uninstalls and leaves NO review. That pendulum swings both ways.

 

The numbers will tell the story though. A month from now, a year from now.

 

Gazz: This entire forum? Some 120 or 130k users out of millions of players. It may look big but it's a very very tiny pond for a big fish of players.

 

With the most dismissive sentence by a member of the TFP Dev Team to date, he kind of let you know that your opinion doesn't really matter. We, the disappointed of the direction of the game (Fallout/Skyrim clone), have already paid and they're now interested in the "NEW" fishes out there.

 

You and your opinions will be... forgotten.

 

TY

[Hellsmoke]

I used to love to build bunkers as my loot and crafting area. This stopped with a15 though when they made it so everything collapses as soon as you dig a few blocks. That killed mining for me so a17 digging zombies don't make or break it, mining has been broken for a while. I've been getting my ore top side since a 15.

 

Also, the myth of the "tiny vocal minority" has been debunked ages ago. Many many people don't take the time to go on a forum and post if they don't like the game, the only ones that do post are 7D junkies like us who can't get enoigh of this game.

[madmole]

I've played over 1,000 hours, 90% of that single player, and I've killed literally thousands of zombies, 90% of them with a wooden club, spiked or otherwise. I set up bases on rooftops for the first couple weeks, then underground when a lot of zombie start running in the daytime.

 

TFP's vision, while previously focused on single-players like me, now seems focused on satisfying groups of player killer PVP folks who go in guns blazing to shoot everything that moves. That's just not how I play it, and I know there's a lot of people who enjoy the single-player game just as I do.

 

I mostly play single player so I don't think you have much to worry about. Its good that MP gets some attention too though.

[myrkana]

Come back and say that after you kill 5000+ zombies. Killing zombies gets boring eventually. You'll be thinking, aww man horde night again? Gotta prepare again! Sometimes some of us want to take a break from horde night(s) and just mine underground to expand our world. We had that chance in a16. Not anymore.

 

You're also assuming that everyone can survive horde night. What if you're completely new to this game and have no idea what to do? Digging a hole and staying there all night is one technique to survive your first horde night.

 

7D2D already has tons of settings/options. Adding another setting/option to enable/disable digging won't hurt anyone.

 

I started at the end of a15 and I never once dug down to hide from the horde night. I made real bases and restarted a few times within the first 7 days as I tested things out. The whole point of the game is that the 7 day horde is tough, you need to figure out legit ways to survive it.

[Poojam]

I mostly play single player so I don't think you have much to worry about. Its good that MP gets some attention too though.

 

Yea. I suppose he's talking about the shared xp, but this update has very seriously killed multiplayer.

 

You can see other people's claim blocks on the map....

You can only have one claim block, so it's extremely easy to pinpoint and raid a base...

You can't build more than one protected structure, which shunts the ability to create large/multiple/detailed structures and also eliminates the ability to use them for tactical offensive/defensive scenarios with PVP...

You move significantly slower than older opponents...

You get a death penalty if someone kills you that compromises the ability for you to kill them & rescue your full inventory due to the encumbrance...

Your stamina is complete ♥♥♥♥e until you spend 20+ hours killing zombies...

Digging zombies reveal your base location by messing up the terrain, so you can't hide on PVP servers...

[madmole]

I like the game now as a survival game, but i hate the fact that it is no longer a build your own world game.

 

IMO the reason there has always been quite loyal players and streamers is that you can spend a long time building almost anything you could imagine. This is the reason minecraft has lasted so long too, in that people like to build new and exciting structures.

By changing this dynamic, they're now going to have to constantly keep adding new and harder challenges because once we all get used to the new baseline difficulty, what else is there to do? Building huge mega structures is no longer a viable option for a large portion of the playerbase simply due to the time needed to invest to even get started.

 

As an example, i built a huge castle in a16 which took me until day 80 to finish the walls/inside [not the actual buildings inside but just the floor/grass] but with the huge nerf that building has taken in a17 it'ld take me over double that minimum and at 90min days . . . . that is just not viable and something that interests me. Yes previously it'ld take ages as well to build these huge structures but at least you could see a steady progress, now the progress would be at a snail pace and [in survival mode at least, not creative] wouldn't even be available to start until mid > late level due to a lot of the higher tier stuff not being available.

 

Now again i do like the new survival part of the game and i like that zombies are a challenge now but i do think that within a few weeks i'll be bored of the survival part and be longing for the building aspect of the game once again.

 

Thats my thoughts anyway I'ld still recommend the game as a survival game, but not as a base building game anymore.

What nerf? I doubled the amount of stone you get before initial release. I seriously doubt its nerfed compared to A16 in terms of how much or how fast you can get resources. If it is, we'll fix that for sure. I build huge castled every build and if I can't, it will get fixed. With all the perks and mods I'm pretty sure you can get loads of resources pretty fast. I gathered 1200 wood in about 5 minutes with my iron fire axe with 3 mods, one the wood splitter. I'll get into rock mining next I get my cement mixer in a level or two.

[leaderdog]

This is complete bs. In alpha 8-11 zombies dug under ground, under your base, and shredded forts.

 

In 12 they dug as well. But they didn't dig straight down.

[skullpoker]

The consequence is that a passive player can't be passive anymore.

 

Hiding was a valid means for survival for the last 5 years, but now it's not.... because TFP's have decided it's not.

 

It's implications for griefing and PVP on multiplayer servers are much more drastic than the single players passivity.

 

A UI toggle for "zombies dig" would put this issue to rest and make everyone happy. As it stands now, it appears that it's not so easily modified without also damaging their ability to inflict damage to bases.

 

Your mistake is your focus on digging. I was responding to "complaints of zombie block damage are routinely countered by a dev chiming in that they's been watching youtube videos of people successfully defending a base on insane always run." which has more to do with the idiotic block damage that makes base building an exercise in futility. It's simple to infer that I meant that there should be a huge difference in how fast enemies destroy structures, block, or other world elements. It doesn't matter how strong a zombie is, the human skeletal structure can't do a whole lot to a brick wall without pulverizing the bones, making further attempts to damage that wall ineffective and rendering the zombies arms useless.

[madmole]

Yea. I suppose he's talking about the shared xp, but this update has very seriously killed multiplayer.

 

You can see other people's claim blocks on the map....

You can only have one claim block, so it's extremely easy to pinpoint and raid a base...

You can't build more than one protected structure, which shunts the ability to create large/multiple/detailed structures and also eliminates the ability to use them for tactical offensive/defensive scenarios with PVP...

You move significantly slower than older opponents...

You get a death penalty if someone kills you that compromises the ability for you to kill them & rescue your full inventory due to the encumbrance...

Your stamina is complete ♥♥♥♥e until you spend 20+ hours killing zombies...

Digging zombies reveal your base location by messing up the terrain, so you can't hide on PVP servers...

 

land claims, a bug and easily fixed.

move slower? What are you talking about. Unarmored dudes run faster than armored.

Stamina is not bad at all if you understand what perks to buy and don't power attack constantly, BUT we're going to improve it.

 

Dealth penalty, save those books and read one of each attribute when you die to remove the penalties. We can look at it. I don't think it matters much for pvp, 1 perk level is not that much damage lost.

 

The underground thing is difficult to please everyone with. Zombies should dig by default but I can see how some people don't like it. Maybe we can make an option.

 

The fact is we have a super wide variety of customers who play so differently. We didn't mean to step on anyones toes with this update, we do what we think would be the most fun and what was on the KS list.

[madmole]

Your mistake is your focus on digging. I was responding to "complaints of zombie block damage are routinely countered by a dev chiming in that they's been watching youtube videos of people successfully defending a base on insane always run." which has more to do with the idiotic block damage that makes base building an exercise in futility. It's simple to infer that I meant that there should be a huge difference in how fast enemies destroy structures, block, or other world elements. It doesn't matter how strong a zombie is, the human skeletal structure can't do a whole lot to a brick wall without pulverizing the bones, making further attempts to damage that wall ineffective and rendering the zombies arms useless.

 

Its a fictional game. Who says the virus or radiation can't make their bones stronger? And its proven on myth busters that a crowd of people can easily push down a big barn door where one guy can't no matter how hard he pushes. Everyone signed up for a tower defense crafting game, not hide behind your walls and laugh at them pounding on the door. Of course we can try to add options to help, but there is block damage 200%. We can bump that to 1000% for the people who want to sit behind their walls all night I guess. It takes away the thrill if you ask me.

[OzHawkeye]

The fact is we have a super wide variety of customers who play so differently. We didn't mean to step on anyones toes with this update, we do what we think would be the most fun and what was on the KS list.

 

Ayup, you're absolutely on a hiding to nothing in any attempt to please everyone. As you say, so many people play this game in so many ways, often diametrically opposed ways, that it's impossible to please everyone.

 

Modding, and allowing modders access to more of the games mechanics, is, I think, the long term "I win" button for the games longevity.

[skullpoker]

What nerf? I doubled the amount of stone you get before initial release. I seriously doubt its nerfed compared to A16 in terms of how much or how fast you can get resources. If it is, we'll fix that for sure. I build huge castled every build and if I can't, it will get fixed. With all the perks and mods I'm pretty sure you can get loads of resources pretty fast. I gathered 1200 wood in about 5 minutes with my iron fire axe with 3 mods, one the wood splitter. I'll get into rock mining next I get my cement mixer in a level or two.

 

That's a matter of perks and advancement. The game seems designed now to make the low levels overly gimped, while at higher levels you can become stronger than you could in a16. Basically I feel pigeonholed into focusing on Stamina-maintaining perks at low levels before I can learn to build items or anything else. The starting carrying capacity is crippling, meaning I have to buy Pack Mule before I can learn to use a bow as though it's a decent weapon. Likewise, if I don't invest heavily in Mother Lode I'm going to get much smaller amounts of resources than I grew accustomed to in a16.

 

Which is to say that it seems to me that I have to massively generalize before I can start to think about any spec. Given how drastically skewed the maps currently are toward harsh climates, there go even more points into well insulated, before I can find a decent spot to base or dig a nice bullet farm. Nitrate producing biomes are also much more abundant than coal/lead areas as a result of the current map weighting.

[Guppycur]

I'm 8 str and have the appropriate perks in smashing and stamina, and power attacks haven't really had a net change in effect for a while, so I'm looking forward to seeing improvements on that. Being a melee guy even with all the requisite perks is not currently feasible on horde nights or in close quarters.

 

A simple ability to edit the entity class XML, candig=true, would solve everyone's problem with digging zombies imo.

 

I'd much rather have it on a per entity basis than a global setting.