A17 feedback so far

[SonicSonedit]

So we tried playing A17 co-op survival on max difficulty (as we always play) with friends. The impressions so far are not really good. Instruments like Pickaxe and Axe are locked until level 20. Forge is locked until level 10 and still pretty useless because main purporse of forge were always tools. Well at least you can craft iron arrowheads, I guess.

 

Peacefull activity (building, gathering, looting) give zero ♥♥♥♥ing experience so you can't progress if you are like me, who is miner of our group or if you are like other guy who is our great engineer.

 

Zombie from a threat turned into only EXP source, and therefore are perceived by our group like mobs from MMORPG or like creeps from MOBA. They lost their identity as zombies.

 

Also they still didn't fix zombies not making any step sounds while walking. Also zombies can still respawn right next to you inside POI.

 

Graphics update is superb, new building are amazing, but all this is ruined because A17 feels like less free-to-do-anything, less survivalish and more RPGish version of A16 with crippled progression locked behind lvl20. For first time since A10 I don't feel like I enjoy the game.

[Hek Harris]

So we tried playing A17 co-op survival on max difficulty (as we always play) with friends. The impressions so far are not really good. Instruments like Pickaxe and Axe are locked until level 20. Forge is locked until level 10 and still pretty useless because main purporse of forge were always tools. Well at least you can craft iron arrowheads, I guess.

The max difficulty slows the progression a lot. In normal difficulty, I win 4 or 5 levels / day. In survivalist, 2. You can, to restore a balance, modify the file "progression.xml" either by giving 2 skill points per level, or by decreasing the number of XP points needed to win a level.

Tools can be easily found, purchased or received as a quest reward.

 

Peacefull activity (building, gathering, looting) give zero ♥♥♥♥ing experience so you can't progress if you are like me, who is miner of our group or if you are like other guy who is our great engineer.

You get XP by mining, cutting wood or digging. You also get some by opening containers and upgrading blocks. Less than before, but certainly not "zero".

 

Zombie from a threat turned into only EXP source, and therefore are perceived by our group like mobs from MMORPG or like creeps from MOBA. They lost their identity as zombies.

It was the same with A16. There was no XP gain notification on the right of the screen nor apparent progress bar, but killing zombies was the fastest way to progress.

 

Also they still didn't fix zombies not making any step sounds while walking. Also zombies can still respawn right next to you inside POI.

Silent zombies are considered by some to be a bug. Personally, I love them. It adds tension.

For the sudden spawns, it may be something that exists in multiplayer. But many solo players complained about it, when they were all zombies they had not detected (hidden behind a door, sleeping in an attic, etc.)

 

Graphics update is superb, new building are amazing, but all this is ruined because A17 feels like less free-to-do-anything, less survivalish and more RPGish version of A16 with crippled progression locked behind lvl20. For first time since A10 I don't feel like I enjoy the game.

I was suspicious at first when I discovered the new progression system. But once understood, I find it very well done. Some steps can be taken before the required level thanks to the books. We must keep these manuals and use them when we want to make some gated stuff.

 

Maybe you should play a little longer and enjoy the progression of your avatar. Whenever you reach a goal, I find it much more rewarding than in previous versions.

[Jugginator]

 

Maybe you should play a little longer and enjoy the progression of your avatar. Whenever you reach a goal, I find it much more rewarding than in previous versions.

So much of this. If more people find joy in progress or reaching goals there'd be far less "OMG GIMMIE 16 BACK NOW 17 BROKE BAD GAME RUINED!!" (not saying that's what Sonic was acting like)

Before, practially A16 gave you everything by the first 3 days or less. Steel tools day 1 was possible if not by day 2 or 3, impenterable bases by day 7, walking OP god by day 6-10, iron armor in the same time-frame. Minibikes/chainsaw/auger were the main RNG hatred. Could have em by day 1 or day 900+ (which the level gating thank god took care of that, can just lvl up to unlock em now).

 

Slow down and stop raging and enjoy the small accomplishements folks and forget that 16 was a walk i nthe park mode that gave ya everything. Youll find more pleasure in the game and life both.

[SonicSonedit]

The max difficulty slows the progression a lot.

Well, this is just terrible design decision. High difficulty should be harder, not more tedious and repetetive.

 

You get XP by mining, cutting wood or digging. You also get some by opening containers and upgrading blocks. Less than before, but certainly not "zero".

Less than before, but certainly not "zero"

This made me smirk because you get literally 2EXP per swing while mining. While you can go kill some zombie and whole party gets 300-500 exp.

 

It was the same with A16. There was no XP gain notification on the right of the screen nor apparent progress bar, but killing zombies was the fastest way to progress.

Absolutely false. You actually could level up faster by mining in A16, so I had to edit XMLs to reduce mining exp gains.

 

So far it strongly feels that game took a turn from a survival experience to a grindy repetetive MMORPG experience with how new systems are built.

[Hek Harris]

Well, I play solo in survivalist mode with zombies running constantly. I hunt z, I explore, I visit POIs, I build a megalomaniac base and I have fun. I must surely do something wrong.

[Ghostlight]

It was the same with A16. There was no XP gain notification on the right of the screen nor apparent progress bar, but killing zombies was the fastest way to progress..

 

No true. I am the miner for our regular co-op group. Only I went out and smashed boulders all day, and I ALWAYS many levels ahead of the others.

 

And here's the deal....resource gathering is THE quickest way to gain XP in A17 as well. Maybe not at the start of the game but eventually. I get 188 XP for cutting down a 1200 HP tree, and do so in 5 swings. That is equal to 3 zombie kills more or less. Now....how many trees can I find and cut down in an hour while you are hunting zombies?

[Druga Runda]

550xp for a zombie kill, but 188xp for a tree, is a lot, which was not my initial impression.

 

Will have to read XML files, and see how this compares again.

[jams]

And here's the deal....resource gathering is THE quickest way to gain XP in A17 as well. Maybe not at the start of the game but eventually. I get 188 XP for cutting down a 1200 HP tree, and do so in 5 swings. That is equal to 3 zombie kills more or less. Now....how many trees can I find and cut down in an hour while you are hunting zombies?

 

That actually sounds quite balanced, we just need them add xp to crafting and building and it will suit everyone

 

Just one small correction: on normal difficulty most of common zombies give 550XP, lumberjacks and bikers give 800. Don't know if it scales up/down with difficulty.

[Hek Harris]

No true. I am the miner for our regular co-op group. Only I went out and smashed boulders all day, and I ALWAYS many levels ahead of the others.

 

We don't have the same experience at all. When I played in coop, I was always a level much higher than other players. Because I explored a lot and practiced mass killing on zombies.

 

On the other hand, with a steel pickaxe or an auger, miners also gained a lot of experience. Which seems fair to some people, so it's good for them.

 

The fact is that if you want the game to give you more XP by breaking rocks instead of zombie skulls, you have to change some things in the xml files. It's a survival game with dangerous and evil entities and you're supposed to exterminate them to become stronger, that's how the game is designed by the Pimps.

 

BUT, and this is one of the many assets of this game that you love to criticize, you can change that very easily. Use the creative menu or edit the XML files to your liking, shake your neurons and make the game playable and fun for YOU.

 

But stop asking that the game becomes by default a playground for diggers. That's not what the devs want, it's not what you'll get. 7 Days is not Minecraft, but you can change that very easily. One thing is certain, it will not happen by coming whining on the forum.

 

And here's the deal....resource gathering is THE quickest way to gain XP in A17 as well. Maybe not at the start of the game but eventually. I get 188 XP for cutting down a 1200 HP tree, and do so in 5 swings. That is equal to 3 zombie kills more or less. Now....how many trees can I find and cut down in an hour while you are hunting zombies?

 

And it's good for you, isn't it ? The difference is that at the end your bag is full of wood, mine is full of good stuff .

[Gazz]

And here's the deal....resource gathering is THE quickest way to gain XP in A17 as well. Maybe not at the start of the game but eventually. I get 188 XP for cutting down a 1200 HP tree, and do so in 5 swings. That is equal to 3 zombie kills more or less. Now....how many trees can I find and cut down in an hour while you are hunting zombies?

 

Yes and no. It scales with the amount of resources and people cry wolf when they don't get awesome harvesting XP on day 1 with their stone axe.

 

One iron ore block can get you up to 386 XP... and it doesn't even hit back.

 

 

I actually enjoy the lower initial harvesting XP a lot because right now I'm playing a "building" game where I concentrate more on base building and less on zombie murdering / POI.

Solo and by day 7 I had a decently fortified converted ruin with a base of all brick/cobblestone, a moderate amount of spikes around it, and plenty of ammo.

 

Leveling is slow but I have a lot of resources to show for it. /shrug

[Noctoras]

I think 7D2D got better for die hard nerds (e.g. average forum population), but less fun for the casual player.

 

I would have preferred the addition of more end game content in terms of items / skills to unlock instead of levelgating this and making grindy that.

 

On the other hand it is a straight forward development, which started with radiated bullet sponges (I'd have preferred more robust normal zeds without this over the top regeneration stuff) and peaked in level gating. A tendency of complicating existing aspects instead of introducing new aspects to the game. To me this is a pity since 7D2D is maybe the game with the biggest potential in the market.

 

I'm not gonna coimplain since it is still an outstanding game - it just wastes some of its potential.

[madmole]

So we tried playing A17 co-op survival on max difficulty (as we always play) with friends. The impressions so far are not really good. Instruments like Pickaxe and Axe are locked until level 20. Forge is locked until level 10 and still pretty useless because main purporse of forge were always tools. Well at least you can craft iron arrowheads, I guess.

 

Peacefull activity (building, gathering, looting) give zero ♥♥♥♥ing experience so you can't progress if you are like me, who is miner of our group or if you are like other guy who is our great engineer.

 

Zombie from a threat turned into only EXP source, and therefore are perceived by our group like mobs from MMORPG or like creeps from MOBA. They lost their identity as zombies.

 

Also they still didn't fix zombies not making any step sounds while walking. Also zombies can still respawn right next to you inside POI.

 

Graphics update is superb, new building are amazing, but all this is ruined because A17 feels like less free-to-do-anything, less survivalish and more RPGish version of A16 with crippled progression locked behind lvl20. For first time since A10 I don't feel like I enjoy the game.

 

I have a full suite of iron and some steel tools by day two from looting hardware stores and loot rooms of the bigger houses. Level 20 is basically day 5 or 6 max.

 

Passive xp scales a lot as you get better tools and perks, doing more damage = more xp.

 

Zombies don't spawn into thin air or behind you, you just didn't see them. They fall through holes in ceilings and stuff and stand in alcoves.

[OnlyMeiya]

 

Zombies don't spawn into thin air or behind you, you just didn't see them. They fall through holes in ceilings and stuff and stand in alcoves.

 

I will be the first to tell you you're wrong here, I have literally seen them spawn directly in front of me even after I've previously cleared them, its like the homes now have multiple spawn points/triggers inside them now.

 

Like, spawned on the floor in sleeper position, not that I overlooked something.

 

Also the gotcha moments are only funny once where the zed have been positioned ontop of houses and inside walls, its starting to get annoying.

 

I'm sure once the AI gets adjusted to be more realistic (since AI has all the data) they'll make more noise too so you'll know they're around if you did overlook.

[PoppaTot]

I will be the first to tell you you're wrong here, I have literally seen them spawn directly in front of me even after I've previously cleared them, its like the homes now have multiple spawn points/triggers inside them now.

 

Like, spawned on the floor in sleeper position, not that I overlooked something.

 

Also the gotcha moments are only funny once where the zed have been positioned ontop of houses and inside walls, its starting to get annoying.

 

I'm sure once the AI gets adjusted to be more realistic (since AI has all the data) they'll make more noise too so you'll know they're around if you did overlook.

 

I've seen this many times, walk up stairs and sleeper spawns literally dropping to the floor from thin air in sleeping mode. Also, animal just spawing in in thin air about 1m up and then dropping to the ground with no agro.

 

Also, I was told by a viewer last night on stream that the construction houses have resources... I was amazed at how generous the resources there are with 4/5 in Mother Load. I got something around 600 cobblestone, 600 stone, and 300 concrete mix. Not too shabby.

 

Edit ^^^ that was at one house.

[HungryZombie]

I've seen this many times, walk up stairs and sleeper spawns literally dropping to the floor from thin air in sleeping mode. Also, animal just spawing in in thin air about 1m up and then dropping to the ground with no agro.

 

Also, I was told by a viewer last night on stream that the construction houses have resources... I was amazed at how generous the resources there are with 4/5 in Mother Load. I got something around 600 cobblestone, 600 stone, and 300 concrete mix. Not too shabby.

 

Edit ^^^ that was at one house.

 

Was that looting or was that harvesting the materials piled around the house?

[PoppaTot]

Was that looting or was that harvesting the materials piled around the house?

 

Harvesting the material around the house.

[HungryZombie]

Harvesting the material around the house.

 

That is really good to know. Can't wait to try it out later tonight.

[Druga Runda]

OK, tried, 550XP for a regular zombie (most cost effective), lumberjacks require double the arrows for 250HP more, not worth the effort.

 

Trees however, at the start when a regular is worth 550XP, are worth 56XP (1200 HP ones), so 10 such trees with the stone axe for three headshots. OK. (also could not find XP rewards for harvesting in XML)

 

Either way, zombies are most valuable resources now. I see a zombie in A17 > let me harvest this resource > killed the motivation for me.

[LuckyStar]

OK, tried, 550XP for a regular zombie (most cost effective), lumberjacks require double the arrows for 250HP more, not worth the effort.

 

Trees however, at the start when a regular is worth 550XP, are worth 56XP (1200 HP ones), so 10 such trees with the stone axe for three headshots. OK. (also could not find XP rewards for harvesting in XML)

 

Either way, zombies are most valuable resources now. I see a zombie in A17 > let me harvest this resource > killed the motivation for me.

 

That's a really good comparison.

 

That's the kind of feedback I think TFP are looking for.

 

Hopefully some tweaking happens.

The question is....

 

Do we want Zombies to be worth less EXP,

do was want mining/harvesting to be worth more,

or a balance of the two?

 

[Which technically is kinda like three questions... but .. there's some commas there .. and stuff.]

[Ghostlight]

We don't have the same experience at all. When I played in coop, I was always a level much higher than other players. Because I explored a lot and practiced mass killing on zombies.

 

Well that's weird as mining has had the reputation of being the OP XP source for as many alphas as I can remember.

 

And it's good for you, isn't it ? The difference is that at the end your bag is full of wood, mine is full of good stuff .

 

I know you are just joking but think of it this way. Given one in-game hour of me killing trees (188 XP per tree, 5 swings per tree), how many zombies would you need to kill to keep up with my XP? For every 3 trees I chop you need to kill a zombie to stay even with me, remember. A hundred? A thousand? Could you even find sufficient zombies and kill them in that same hour? All I need to do is run to the next tree! And after my hour felling trees I have plenty of time to kill zeds and gain loot and still be way ahead of you in XP. It's pretty OP.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

That actually sounds quite balanced, we just need them add xp to crafting and building and it will suit everyone

 

Just one small correction: on normal difficulty most of common zombies give 550XP, lumberjacks and bikers give 800. Don't know if it scales up/down with difficulty.

 

Yup. 188 x 3 = 564. 3 trees = 1 zombie ish

[Corbit]

Well that's weird as mining has had the reputation of being the OP XP source for as many alphas as I can remember.

 

 

 

I know you are just joking but think of it this way. Given one in-game hour of me killing trees (188 XP per tree, 5 swings per tree), how many zombies would you need to kill to keep up with my XP? For every 3 trees I chop you need to kill a zombie yo stay even with me, remember. A hundred? A thousand? Could you even find sufficient zombies and kill them in that same hour? All I need to do is run to the next tree! And after my hour felling trees I have plenty of time to kill zeds and gain loot and still be way ahead of you in XP. It's pretty OP.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Yup. 188 x 3 564. 3 trees = 1 zombie ish

 

Ability to cut down trees needs a level gate, its clearly too easy. People can loot chairs for wood before they get the perk

[Ghostlight]

I think 7D2D got better for die hard nerds (e.g. average forum population), but less fun for the casual player.

.

 

I could not disagree more. In A17 every single item in the game* is given to you when you hit a certain level. How much more casual than that can you get? No need to loot or explore at all. Everything on a plate. Just about the most casual "survival" game I can imagine.

 

* other than Beakers

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Ability to cut down trees needs a level gate, its clearly too easy. People can loot chairs for wood before they get the perk

 

Please don't give them ideas....

[HerrKingsley]

Build some campfires + Wait for screamer= unlimited xp

[Kosiam]

I have a full suite of iron and some steel tools by day two from looting hardware stores and loot rooms of the bigger houses. Level 20 is basically day 5 or 6 max.

 

Passive xp scales a lot as you get better tools and perks, doing more damage = more xp.

 

Zombies don't spawn into thin air or behind you, you just didn't see them. They fall through holes in ceilings and stuff and stand in alcoves.

 

Maybe they dont spawn in single player this way but they sure do on MP servers. Walk in a room, check out a cabinet, turn around and where did 4 to 6 zeds sleeping come from? Totally broken atm. I would like to see all you super hero 7d2d players prove it to me on a MP server. Who wants to play this game where no one can see your accomplishments besides being boring?

[Kilroy83]

Zombie spawn occurs even after you entered a poi, don't know if they spawn when you get to a certain spot or after you killed one, maybe the active amount has a cap and as you kill more spawn to reach the max quantity of zombies associated to that poi, also there's a distinguishable noise for entity spawn when you get near