Rpoblems with Alpha 17

[JoelleEmmily]

For some reason, the forum is restricting my character limit to 10,000, but not telling me why, which seems like an ongoing problem with the forum... ambiguous error messages, so I'm posting this in its own topic to not to spam the sticky thread of "How do you like A17 experimental NOW?"

 

 

I liked the progression system much more when it was based on your actions, like running improving your stamina, or crafting improving your... crafting. I do admit there were problems with spamming some categories to quickly increase your skill level... but isn't that what people do in real life? Practice something until they get good at it? I find this RPG style system... bothersome, and unrealistic, and the fact that some abilities are locked behind, as J.C. Channel would say, a level pay wall, is annoying.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

It also seems like Fun Pimps hasn't really decided if they're going to keep character level based handicaps in place, as over the updates, it's been removed and re-added and it's just, well, plain dumb. Obviously, if the devs think getting access to steal crafting too early in the game is too over powered, that's not a problem with the progression system, it's a problem with the overall design and the game's ability to keep up with the player and provide an ever increasing challenge. These "level paywalls" are a handicap, and seem designed to artificially force a player into a certain direction, because the devs don't know what else to do to challenge players who know what skills are most valuable.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

To me, in a perfect game, players would never need to use a skill tree, or spend hours looking for an RNG placed book to increase their abilities. In a perfect game, the game would track your choices, adjust your skill levels accordingly, both up and down, while adjusting the game's rubber-banding to force a player to become better and better at it's challenges. One game which comes to mind for this, is The Forest, in it, player attributes are increased by a combination of in game conditions, but will decay over time if those conditions aren't met. The Forest is not a perfect game, but I find that particular aspect very immersive.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Also, zombies are still as dumb as nails... not in game nail which are rare, but real nails which are plentiful and superseded by screws. Channelling zombies onto a long platform with a 3 block gap between you and them, prevents them from attacking the platform, or you directly, and gives you time to pick them off with the games most basic weapon, while the height, lets you deal with cops and other ranged enemies. Combing this with a butt load of torches, creates the perfect level ramping system. Screamers spawn in due to the heat level generated by the torches, you let them summon other Zeds, you casually aim at them with a bow and arrow along the platform, you gain XP without ever risking yourself. Completely negating the level handicapping.

[JoelleEmmily]

The forum is is also not allowing me to post my photos, or link to them on my google drive, so here they are, I call the thing The Zombie Lemming Run of Death:

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U6yY8gy5l_cTw4i9QIr2W5otiEc4CPrW

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QBDK6vamUuiXY_g3r42ueRMwu3tj-_Wq

[JCrook1028]

The forum is is also not allowing me to post my photos, or link to them on my google drive, so here they are, I call the thing The Zombie Lemming Run of Death:

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U6yY8gy5l_cTw4i9QIr2W5otiEc4CPrW

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QBDK6vamUuiXY_g3r42ueRMwu3tj-_Wq

 

Is that D2 with lvl 6 and 5 weapons? Creative mode sure is nice..... sigh

[JoelleEmmily]

 

A video of the test.

[LuckyStar]

@ the OP

 

1) Your first problem is spelling.

[Kidding... but ... not really.... check your spelling.]

 

2) In a perfect game?

These aren't problems with A17, these are personal preferences.

[Ps: I love "The Forest" and yeah it's got some cool things about it.]

 

3) 10k Limit is ....limiting for you?

My English Professor in University once said to our class,

"Say what you need to say in as few words as possible."

 

4) Zombie AI is ... well I won't disagree. It's not working atm.

But.... it's new. Give TFP time to make adjustments and [hopefully] it will get better.

A17's AI has potential and I think everyone can at least agree on that.

 

5) You brought "Realism" into your post?

Ugh..... really?

[ See what I did there? =) ]

[JoelleEmmily]

Is that D2 with lvl 6 and 5 weapons? Creative mode sure is nice..... sigh

 

I'm not sure what your point is or how it reflects on the test... Do you not know how to get access to the creative mode? Is that why you're wistful? I'm sorry bud. You press F1 or whatever key you have binded for console; then type cm and press enter.

 

But if you were making the comment for some other reason, like to disparage my test, here is a screenshot from my normal playthrough build. And because I assume you'll bring it up, the gamma correction has been increased so I could take the picture.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=17IQFyXOfcD586H6lfWBMKNQ4z1nzVipX

 

As per my testing in both normal play as well as in creative mode, the Zombie AI and action conditions are not affect by debug or creative usage.

[JoelleEmmily]

@ the OP...

 

1) The forums don't allow you to edit titles, or else I would've corrected it.

 

2) You say they're not problems, but then acknowledge that the AI is somewhat bugged... Could someone say that the terribleness of Superman 64 is only a personal preference?

 

3) Not 10k words, 10k characters. The forum, for some reason, limits me to ten thousand CHARACTERS.

 

4) Realism as it pertains to the game. In Alien: Isolation, not being able to jump never really becomes a problem, so it's realistic in that respect, it's believable. In The Long Dark, not being able to jump means you get stuck on pieces of debris all the time, making the inability a major hindrance, and an unbelievable restriction, thus, not realistic.

[LuckyStar]

1) The forums don't allow you to edit titles, or else I would've corrected it.

 

2) You say they're not problems, but then acknowledge that the AI is somewhat bugged... Could someone say that the terribleness of Superman 64 is only a personal preference?

 

3) Not 10k words, 10k characters. The forum, for some reason, limits me to ten thousand CHARACTERS.

 

4) Realism as it pertains to the game. In Alien: Isolation, not being able to jump never really becomes a problem, so it's realistic in that respect, it's believable. In The Long Dark, not being able to jump means you get stuck on pieces of debris all the time, making the inability a major hindrance, and an unbelievable restriction, thus, not realistic.

 

I noticed you conflated my example of your personal preference of what you consider a perfect game [with regards to skills/leveling/etc] and what I said about AI.

 

Nice try... but I caught it .... so.....

 

Also, I won't back down with regards to using "Realism" as an argument in a Fantasy game.

It's the go-to for those with weak arguments.

That's not to say you didn't have some good points. You did.

You didn't need to add "realism" to your post and in fact it diminished everything else.

 

Also.... Superman 64 has nothing to do with this conversation.

You're pulling things out of nowhere to make a point that was weak to begin with.

Sorry... not buying it.

[JoelleEmmily]

@ the OP...

 

Also, I think perfect games do exist, and fall into two categorizes, either games which perfectly implement what the creator is intending, in which case Stardew Valley would be close, or those which are extremely easy to play (as in control, utilize the presented mechanics, ect), in which case I'd say Alien: Isolation is pretty close, and could've been better if the AI hadn't been dialed back because the devs thought it was too cruel.

[LuckyStar]

Also, I think perfect games do exist, and fall into two categorizes, either games which perfectly implement what the creator is intending, in which case Stardew Valley would be close, or those which are extremely easy to play (as in control, utilize the presented mechanics, ect), in which case I'd say Alien: Isolation is pretty close, and could've been better if the AI hadn't been dialed back because the devs thought it was too cruel.

 

See how that sentence starts?

 

"I think"

 

This is your idea of a perfect game.

Others will say that game blows chunks.

 

Are they wrong?

 

The answer is no and also neither are you wrong.

The premise is flawed.

 

There is no one perfect game for everyone since we all have different ideas of what that statement means.

 

Having said that.....

 

... Stardew Valley is awesome and deserved a lot more awards than it got.

[JoelleEmmily]

I noticed you conflated...

 

You are attempting to conflate my example of objective terribleness, with a stawman argument involving a non-sequitur interjection intended to obfuscate a point. Which is what you accused me of doing.

 

 

I was not connecting progression with AI implementation, nor referencing anything particular, my target for what realism is the ability for a vehicle, in this case a game, to be able to suspend once disbelief, in which both buggy AI and clunky progression inhibit.

 

 

Now, I'm not sure if your tone is intending to bring levity to your comments, or if you are intentionally trying to be confrontational... if it's the former, I'd love to continue discussing this, if it's the latter, we should probably stop, and for the sake of it, I'll concede that you have made your point and won the argument.

[LuckyStar]

I'll concede that you have made your point and won the argument.

 

 

Yes!

 

I win.

[JoelleEmmily]

See how that sentence starts?

 

True, subjective preferences play a huge part in what a person/people will enjoy, but the reason I brought up Superman 64, is that there are some objectively bad games, game designs, and general concepts. This is not to say that 7 Days to Die is on par with Superman 64, not even close, but bad AI (and I use the term in the common vernacular because I doubt the game has a real IA), and the utilization of artificially limiting mechanics, I think, are. I use the phase, "I think", and "I believe," because I cannot cite a study which looks at these aspects of game design empirically, but I do believe there is enough anecdotal evidence and general complaints from the community, to justify such statments.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

Yes!

 

I win.

 

Alright, you win. If that satifies you, I'll consider the matter closed.

[LuckyStar]

True, subjective preferences play a huge part in what a person/people will enjoy, but the reason I brought up Superman 64, is that there are some objectively bad games, game designs, and general concepts. This is not to say that 7 Days to Die is on par with Superman 64, not even close, but bad AI (and I use the term in the common vernacular because I doubt the game has a real IA), and the utilization of artificially limiting mechanics, I think, are. I use the phase, "I think", and "I believe," because I cannot cite a study which looks at these aspects of game design empirically, but I do believe there is enough anecdotal evidence and general complaints from the community, to justify such statments.

 

See now this is not what you originally said.

At least it didn't come across that way.

 

I happen to agree with everything you say here.

[Viktoriusiii]

Since my thread was deleted and my text was merged into a thread that was unfitting (this has nothing to do with unstable so f you mod who moved it) here is what I had to say on the problems of A17:

 

Well. I'm sorry for this and I know I'm going to get hate... but I'm out anyways, as experimental is over, so my feedback is no longer needed.

_________

*edit* I now know why they released stable:

7d2d is in the wintersale. This sickens me to the core, even though I understand its an economic descision.

_________

 

I'm very disappointed. As a lot of ppl have stated before, this is not ready to be called stable.

A.I. is broken, traderprices make traders (except for quests) unviable, multiplayer still gives multiplicative xp (WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA), forge is locked behind even more requirements than at the start (lvl 20) when everyone complained about it and random gen is now more scrambled and all over the place than it was in A16.4

performance is insanely bad

 

The only positive things of A17:

vehicles

most textures look nice (distant textures of those ground branch bushes or whatever are sooo bad)

new pois bring in more things to explore and look at

I like that there are more crafting stations (even though they are basically useless)

Mods are sweet (but gunprogression is gone, now colored weapons have more damage)

 

but that is it... everything else was a stept back.

Combat is worse, guns feel bad, loottables are scrambled, you cant run anywhere...

 

I will (for the first time since I joined at steamrelease) lookout for a mod that fixes those issues, until then I will stay on A16.4 as it is the superior version.

Its a good basis for a game... but as this is "stable" it is horrendous.

 

Goodbye, I hope to see you again once you have fixed all those issues, but for now you have lost me (and probably a lot of others as far as I've read on the forums.

[JoelleEmmily]

See now this is not what you originally said.

At least it didn't come across that way.

 

I happen to agree with everything you say here.

 

This is what discussion is for, to enhance and suss out opinions and concepts.

[LuckyStar]

Since my thread was deleted and my text was merged into a thread that was unfitting (this has nothing to do with unstable so f you mod who moved it) here is what I had to say on the problems of A17:

 

Well. I'm sorry for this and I know I'm going to get hate... but I'm out anyways, as experimental is over, so my feedback is no longer needed.

_________

*edit* I now know why they released stable:

7d2d is in the wintersale. This sickens me to the core, even though I understand its an economic descision.

_________

 

I'm very disappointed. As a lot of ppl have stated before, this is not ready to be called stable.

A.I. is broken, traderprices make traders (except for quests) unviable, multiplayer still gives multiplicative xp (WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA), forge is locked behind even more requirements than at the start (lvl 20) when everyone complained about it and random gen is now more scrambled and all over the place than it was in A16.4

performance is insanely bad

 

The only positive things of A17:

vehicles

most textures look nice (distant textures of those ground branch bushes or whatever are sooo bad)

new pois bring in more things to explore and look at

I like that there are more crafting stations (even though they are basically useless)

Mods are sweet (but gunprogression is gone, now colored weapons have more damage)

 

but that is it... everything else was a stept back.

Combat is worse, guns feel bad, loottables are scrambled, you cant run anywhere...

 

I will (for the first time since I joined at steamrelease) lookout for a mod that fixes those issues, until then I will stay on A16.4 as it is the superior version.

Its a good basis for a game... but as this is "stable" it is horrendous.

 

Goodbye, I hope to see you again once you have fixed all those issues, but for now you have lost me (and probably a lot of others as far as I've read on the forums.

 

Vik,

 

Enough already.

 

You literally cut and pasted this RANT of yours from another thread.

 

I don't mind debating you because you are an intelligent guy and you have some very good points.

In fact I Enjoy our debates as I tend to learn a lot from them.

 

This nonsense is beneath you.

 

If you are seriously, and I mean that, actually, honestly, really that unhappy with this game... walk away man.

 

Come back after the holidays when A17 is a little more polished or something... anything. Go get laid.

 

This is not you.

You are better than this.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

This is what discussion is for, to enhance and suss out opinions and concepts.

 

[JoelleEmmily]

Since my thread was deleted...

 

 

I'm not sure how to respond to you, you seem really angry for some reason... Personally, I feel I've gotten more than my money's worth out of the game: I ran a halfway popular server for a long time, I modded it a little, I've replayed solo a few times... Some of the changes are... irritating, I especially don't like artificial limitations, but I don't think anything, at this point, is game breaking, just frustrating... and easily fixable with modding. But I like to play games as the devs intend before I mess with them. I also think the devs are trying to implement concepts from other games, which I don't discourage... some ideas will be good, but some will inevitably be bad... and for how much they change and evolve the game... well... I have other games which've charged me for DLC, additional characters, and a wack of other stuff... 7 Days gave me new monsters, vehicles, mechanics, ect, and I paid 10 bux for it.

 

 

Please Fun Pimps, don't stop! But I do reserve the right to complain.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Also, thank you so much for hijacking my thread...

[JoelleEmmily]

Actually, I frequently use 7 Days to Die as an example of how to "do it right." They respond to their audience, they provide an ever evolving game, and they try not to be ♥♥♥♥s about anything... and I think, their sales numbers more than reflect their popularity. I still buy copies to give away, and I frequently come back to the game...

[Aldranon]

Well I'm glad we're seeing over 20K active players again. Hope this continues as a win for TFP is ultimately a win for all the players as they will keep improving until most people are satisfied then move to a sequel (my guess) or something that leverages the tech they have learned now.

[Doctor3D]

Game needs bandits, yesterday. No point in even focusing too much on balance when AI that shoots at you will require you to have to rebalance many things all over again. I remain firm in that getting bandits in should be a priority so that we can begin a stage of balancing and fine-tuning the progression of the game over the next couple releases. Even if they are primitive at first - it still allows for a cohesive foundation for balance between AI and mechanics as they develop.

[LuckyStar]

Well I'm glad we're seeing over 20K active players again. Hope this continues as a win for TFP is ultimately a win for all the players as they will keep improving until most people are satisfied then move to a sequel (my guess) or something that leverages the tech they have learned now.

 

Yeah same.

 

I am hopeful that number keeps growing as 17.1 , 17.2, 17.3 etc come out.

 

Let's face it, A16.4 was leaps and bounds better than 16.3 and so on.

 

Guess it's just going to take patience.

 

FORTUNATELY..... I've got some of Mom's cookies for Christmas and Assasin's Creed Odyssey is on sale for half price right now so...

 

... I'm good!

 

[Ttocs]

Dont let Rpoblems in life get you down thats my motto

[JoelleEmmily]

Dont let Rpoblems in life get you down thats my motto

 

Or the fact that your apostrophe and comma keys seem to be broken.

 

[LuckyStar]

Dont let Rpoblems in life get you down thats my motto

 

Okay first... this was funny!!

 

Or the fact that your apostrophe and comma keys seem to be broken.

 

 

This was hysterical!!!

 

Hahahahaha thanks for the laugh guys.