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Definitely unstable stable.


Deme

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It's stable for two reasons, to take a break over Christmas and to generate sales in that period.

 

Both reasons are reasonable. TFPs have lives / families and they probably had a target of A17 out of the door before the end of the year.

 

For an EA title after 5 years and between 2 to 5 million copies sold but only an average player base of 20k (0.57% vs sold copies) to generate new income you need a big point release such as A17 whether it is ready or not. Sales will spike, player number will increase sharply then tail off as per previous alpha's and TFPs get another injection of money.

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It's stable for two reasons, to take a break over Christmas and to generate sales in that period.

 

Both reasons are reasonable. TFPs have lives / families and they probably had a target of A17 out of the door before the end of the year.

 

For an EA title after 5 years and between 2 to 5 million copies sold but only an average player base of 20k (0.57% vs sold copies) to generate new income you need a big point release such as A17 whether it is ready or not. Sales will spike, player number will increase sharply then tail off as per previous alpha's and TFPs get another injection of money to keep 7DTD going for a while longer for hardcore fans :)

 

You nailed it. It's also probably the reason they decided to use 14 months development cycles without releasing anything, because from a marketing point of view releasing a huge kraken in one piece has more impact on sales than by releasing smaller updates left and right. The sad thing is that it creates a sort of tunnelvision where you dig deeper and deeper in one direction, and I feel this direction clearly made some strong points of the game fade while trying to capitalize on systems that a lot of other games are already using (and way better).

 

The more and more 7DTD progresses, the more and more I hate the fact Madmole's favourite game is Skyrim. Because I feel a lot of the overhauls happening in A17 are trying to mimick systems that games like Skyrim provide, at the expense of systems that made 7DTD unique.

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I think they did the right thing. They are going to be resting for holidays, as they should. So, I prefer to know I can put a little effort into a game BC of no imminent new releases.

 

Sure, the game isn't really stable now, but what is your alternative?...

 

Whats my alternative? That's pretty simple, how hard would it have been for Joel to come on the forums and post something such as this:

 

"Greetings everyone! First of all I would just like to say thank you for all the support and feedback (both positive and negative) about A17, which as you all know has been our biggest update of the game yet! It has been a long 14 months of development on this update and the holiday season is finally here. While Alpha 17 is currently not where we would like it to be, we would just like to let you know that we feel we have gotten B240 to a state that has no major game breaking bugs, and as such we be leaving it in this build for the holiday season. The next build will probably be late January-Early February as we are taking some time off after our hard work over the past year. Happy Holidays, see everyone in the New Year!"

 

THAT is my alternative, if TFP posted that, or something along those lines I would be happy with what i have. Its not the game I'm upset with, its the fact that they wont be straight up and tell it like it is.

 

To me, STABLE means a game is done for this alpha. So I would expect the next update to be A18 or maybe an emergency update once for A17 Stable because something major turned up. This is not the case, we all know it, the current build is FAR FROM ALPHA 18 so why label it in a manner that would suggest that is what build to expect next.

 

/rant

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Always with the invitations to stop playing. There ought to be a forum law... Well I'm no child, and I also noted the stretch. "'stable', huh? Did I just go through a time warp?"

 

You're right, Deme, and I think SoulCast probably has the reason. Stable was rushed. There were reasons. That, in the real world, is that. They're probably not trying to fool us as much as trying to button up for the holidays without regard for the sanctity of definitions. It is a bit insulting. As you grow older and more jaded, bullsh** like this will bother you less. :p

 

Nothing Jaded about my post.

 

I meant it when I said the OP may want to wait a month before playing again.

By then many of the current issues will have been addressed.

 

Also your comment about Stable being rushed..... yeah of course it was.

It's Christmas.

 

TFP worked hard, released something for us to play with over the holidays, and then took a break.

What's wrong with that?

 

What I find insulting is a post like yours with claims you're older and jaded bull**** bothers you less and yet that jaded stuff perfectly describes your own comment.

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I think they did the right thing. They are going to be resting for holidays, as they should. So, I prefer to know I can put a little effort into a game BC of no imminent new releases.

 

Sure, the game isn't really stable now, but what is your alternative? And making them work during the holidays is not a valid response. So, take it like yourself said, an unstable stable, just to let us know we can play a bit longer without new releases.

 

If you want more stable, you need to play 16.4 . But holidays are for everybody

 

We could just have easily played B204 as experimental while they took the holidays off.

 

My fear is the people that purposefully avoided experimental to avoid badly broken mechanics and frequent major changes and world wipes. Now those people will scream bloody murder when they get all of that in a "stable" re;ease. yes I know Alpha 16 went to 16.4 so the stable did have a few wipes. But, original 16 was in much better shape than original 17.

 

Anyway, I hope for the best and if nothing else that TFP will not do many wipes during this phase and instead save up fixes and pop a lot of them at once so there is leaa moaning.

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Nothing Jaded about my post.

 

I meant it when I said the OP may want to wait a month before playing again.

By then many of the current issues will have been addressed.

 

Also your comment about Stable being rushed..... yeah of course it was.

It's Christmas.

 

TFP worked hard, released something for us to play with over the holidays, and then took a break.

What's wrong with that?

 

What I find insulting is a post like yours with claims you're older and jaded bull**** bothers you less and yet that jaded stuff perfectly describes your own comment.

Wasn't addressing your reply beyond the first paragraph... But in answer to your question about TFP, the problem with that is that they, like many other companies, constantly shoot themselves in the foot by failing to proactively, and visibly communicate their intentions ahead of potentially controversial actions that cannot be properly understood, by people not thinking the same thoughts as them, without added context. I'd feel bad if any company worked through a holiday. And yes I was saying that I am jaded. Crack open a dictionary... kid. ;)

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Wasn't addressing your reply beyond the first paragraph... But in answer to your question about TFP, the problem with that is that they, like many other companies, constantly shoot themselves in the foot by failing to proactively, and visibly communicate their intentions ahead of potentially controversial actions that cannot be properly understood, by people not thinking the same thoughts as them, without added context. I'd feel bad if any company worked through a holiday. And yes I was saying that I am jaded. Crack open a dictionary... kid. ;)

 

As a person who's got a Masters Degree in Business majoring in Advertising and Marketing and who's also been in business for himself for more than a quarter century....

 

I can say with relative confidence you are right on!!!

 

It's NEVER a good idea to over estimate your delivery dates.

Always better to underestimate and then surprise the customer by exceeding their expectations.

 

Also your comment illustrates a lack of proper communication as to the direction and purpose of the alterations/additions we're seeing coming from TFP.

 

I completely agree with you.

 

I've seen stuff like this even in multi-billion dollar corporations at times.

They can be great at what they do, even provide an excellent product, but [like you say] shoot themselves in the foot over and over by communicating with the customers poorly.

 

I'm one of the most patient customers TFP are going to have.... and even I've been annoyed a little at some of the things they've put forth.

 

Yeah I hear ya man!

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Whats my alternative? That's pretty simple, how hard would it have been for Joel to come on the forums and post something such as this....

 

Except only a small percentaje of players use the forums.

 

Anyway, such a message would have been good yes. I myself played the first a17 release knowing it would soon be wiped, and after that I just tested things without wanting to invest time again until a stable version. But this "stable" version has made me start a new game, thinking it would take a while for a new version. But Im not even sure bc of the lack of info.

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Isn't that coming back though?

[Once they fix the bugs, that is.]

 

Probably, you could say the same about stability. Trouble is that devs are always quick to remove something cool, but slow to put it back in if they want to come up with a better solution for it, that is. Once it's gone, there's no saying when it will be back, or if it ever will be back at all.

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Probably, you could say the same about stability. Trouble is that devs are always quick to remove something cool, but slow to put it back in if they want to come up with a better solution for it, that is. Once it's gone, there's no saying when it will be back, or if it ever will be back at all.

 

I may have to Mod this in then.

 

I like Traders selling stuff like that.

So long as the price makes it available mid-late game only , I'm fine with it.

 

I just don't want an OP Tool/Weapon early on.

That just ruins everything.

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I wish we could go back to the version before 238 it was more stable.

 

I agree. If they had of just taken that build and fixed the vehicle headlights and trader Jens voice, I think more people would be happy. As it is, I am doing major edits and mods just to get a decent working map.

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