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Starting out is tough but it's fine.


Slingblade2040

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Couldn't you just give yourself some food & water to start with until you get a few perks to smooth out the stamina to your preferences? There is no way TFP's can balance the game to fit everyone's taste. You got to roll with it a bit if something is too painful you can't play.

 

I thought about this.

 

We've seen other games have an "Accelerated Start" option.

 

For those who don't like that really early grind or the younger players with no patience at all [that's fine, lots of young people are like that]....

 

.... this might be a good option.

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Wow, that sounds not only challenging but hella fun! At least for me it would have. The challenge is the fun for some. May RNG smile on you from this point forward to increase your enjoyment ;)

 

You're right Exxodous, if I hadn't been grinding my teeth by the time I made to the gas station, and had benefitted from a bit more rng love, aka had some food, it would have been fun.

And thank you for the kind wishes, may they be returned to you ten fold this holiday season :)

 

Your not looking hard enough, I find a cooking pot on day 1 almost always if not, I have one early day 2 usually. There are MANY poi's that have cooking pots just sitting in the kitchen in the open. Not to mention in the burnt forest biomes there are those corners of houses that often have both a stove and a sink, both of which can have cooking pots in their loot. That bar Poi, the small one always has 1-2 cooking pots in the kitchen just sitting there for you to take as well, forgot what the pub is called, but its a older poi.

 

As for meat, what do you expect? when you hunt you need to travel, not expect dinner to come to your door. Unsure what the respawn time is in a17 but in a16.4 it was 7 game days between animals respawning in a chunk, you want the meat? you need to travel preferably to places on the map you have not explored yet. I usually have 50+ bacon and eggs by day 6 or so, and tons of spare meat just sitting there in storage. The problem here isin't the game, its the player, if your huddled in one spot well no wonder your having issues on the first week.

 

If you can find a sledgehammer your golden though for breaking into poi/safes, it has the highest block damage in the game, you cannot harvest with it though so don't try you'll get nothing, its stricktly a breaking stuff and bashing heads Tool.

 

If I had any major complaint about a17 it would be how useless the perception and agility perk lines are in general, really isin't any must haves in either. Compared to str/int/fort. Lots of QoL stuff, but early game you can't really afford the skill points to get them. Getting int and str and fort up are too important.

 

Other than the small house next to where I spawned in the only other poi I saw on the way to the snow biome trader is the mid-sized dungeon poi just west of traders. I was on Nav map which may not have as many sites as rwg; only my impression from rwg pics folks have posted during experimental.

 

Roland let me know that due to my color choices about half of my post you replied to wasn't visible on mobile devices. I know about the large number of burnt remains of houses in the burnt forest biome, and the high likelyhood of finding pots & wrenches.I did travel there to secure a cooking pot.

 

Maybe Snow Berries were a bit to easy in 16.4, Yukka was of course. In A17 however my experiance has been that it's simply not possible to survive by foraging. Berries give a single point of Stam/Food. Each time I've eaten 5 I've gotten food poisoning. Previously in 16.4, if you ate 2 or 3, then waited a short while you could eat another 2 or 3. You could, slowly & carefully, top off food.

 

Eating raw eggs in A17 has also been fairly dicey. I've tried eating one, waiting a couple rw minutes then another. My experiance has been that you may be ok eating egg # 2, but egg # 3 a couple mins later has given debuff every time I've tried it, for a net loss.

 

And no, I don't expect dinner to come to my door. No issues that you need to roam to find animals; if there were at least partial alternatives. I've had a couple starts where I had over a 100 meat in the first day. Might have been TFPs adjusting spawn rates, might have been rng luck. In the start I described I had about 2.3 km traveled by the time I reached gas station the first night. I had seen one rabbit. A previous start in the burnt forest I'd gotten a rabbit and 2 boars in the spawn area.

 

I "huddled in one spot" during the night. If TFPs add in a 'spotlighting deer' mechanic then I'll hunt at night. As it is I don't see the point in even attempting to hunt at night. Maybe if I really boosted gamma I could see game at night? Haven't tried, and frankly that would feel like cheating to me.

 

I also prefer, my choice, to try and play more along the lines of 'what would I do if this were real?'. So minimize risk. Try to have a reserve. Meaning I'll try to avoid z encounters if less than ~75 Health, especially if no healing items.

 

It's their game. Their choices. They may have intentionally set things up so early game is heavily reliant on hunting. Intentionally changed it so 'wild' foraging is no longer an option. Not speaking to the very large corn fields in Nav; though I don't think that's viable early game either? Not certain but raw corn I think is only worth 1 or 2? and 5 or 10% debuf chance? Something like that. Think it would work once you have a pot or a grill.

 

As things are at the moment, spawning in the burnt forest have been, by far, my easiest starts. Basically certain to have a pot & wrench by mid day. Nests are easy to spot, as are z's & boar/deer/wolves.

 

Part of my frustration is that there are ways to reduce rng dependance that are known yet not in place. And I have no idea if it's due to conscious decisions or due to rng favoritism, heh. Maybe MadMole's apparently preferred nomadic playstyle is what they've balanced for, no idea.

 

Just my opinion but while 16.4 yukka was OP'd, I thought snow berries were about spot on. Viable, but you really didn't want to be dependent on them.

 

Finally, factor in if you're more builder inclined. Nothing previous to A17, not even Ravenhearst or WoW, forced such a dramatic change in focus. Now the early games number one priority is food. And the bulk of that must be hunting & eggs & Master Chef 1.

 

So as I said, I'll tweak stamina cost, add in a non-pot-dependent egg recipe, bump to warrior and go back to having some fun.

 

Happy Holidays & good tidings to everyone, one and all :)

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Couldn't you just give yourself some food & water to start with until you get a few perks to smooth out the stamina to your preferences? There is no way TFP's can balance the game to fit everyone's taste. You got to roll with it a bit if something is too painful you can't play.

 

Yes, I could Hungry. I was sticking w defaults during exp in order to be able to report bugs & post relevent opinions; which weren't typically so, err.. 'impassioned'? heh. I might wind up adding in a few more cans of chili to starter items. Depends on how patient I am with tweaking stamina 'cost' in entityclasses.xml. And after writing out the just posted wall-O-txt I'm considering tweaking berries (ok, that sounds dirty... 0_o ) to support wild foraging. Also thinking about maybe adding in a Stone Hoe recipe to allow early gardening.

 

Appreciate the thought and ideas, and the good will in your reply, Happy Holidays :)

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Your not looking hard enough, I find a cooking pot on day 1 almost always if not, I have one early day 2 usually. There are MANY poi's that have cooking pots just sitting in the kitchen in the open. Not to mention in the burnt forest biomes there are those corners of houses that often have both a stove and a sink, both of which can have cooking pots in their loot. That bar Poi, the small one always has 1-2 cooking pots in the kitchen just sitting there for you to take as well, forgot what the pub is called, but its a older poi.

 

As for meat, what do you expect? when you hunt you need to travel, not expect dinner to come to your door. Unsure what the respawn time is in a17 but in a16.4 it was 7 game days between animals respawning in a chunk, you want the meat? you need to travel preferably to places on the map you have not explored yet. I usually have 50+ bacon and eggs by day 6 or so, and tons of spare meat just sitting there in storage. The problem here isin't the game, its the player, if your huddled in one spot well no wonder your having issues on the first week.

 

If you can find a sledgehammer your golden though for breaking into poi/safes, it has the highest block damage in the game, you cannot harvest with it though so don't try you'll get nothing, its stricktly a breaking stuff and bashing heads Tool.

 

If I had any major complaint about a17 it would be how useless the perception and agility perk lines are in general, really isin't any must haves in either. Compared to str/int/fort. Lots of QoL stuff, but early game you can't really afford the skill points to get them. Getting int and str and fort up are too important.

 

In the wastelands cooking pots are literally out in the open on small mounds of rubble right next to the roads lmao. A cooking pot should never be hard for anyone to find by the end of day 1. IMO

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So I've played b240 and I'm fine with it. People need to come to terms that starting out is suppose to be a struggle till you are established. Yes I also complained and whined about the changes especially to the trader but I adjusted and learned some perks aren't needed like some people suggest. I ignored mother load, pack mule, better barter and a few others and focused on things to help me survive.

 

After the starter quest I spent all the points on the perk that helps reduce water and food loss. 2 points in fortitude and 2 points in the water and food loss perk. After that I focused on skull crusher, sex Rex and rule 1 cardio.

 

I'm playing the game on Nomad till I get better and more adjusted to the changes. If most of you continue to struggle I advise you to lower the game difficulty till you get used to the changes, yes even if it means putting the game on the easiest settings and working your way up to harder difficulties.

 

Play everything from a default or higher difficulty.

 

Its not that its a struggle, its just too damn tedious for a variety of wrong ways, which is really robbing the fun factor for me. I survive entirely fine, I'm just not enjoying myself while doing it.

 

You have to constantly eat to keep your stam softcap at a reasonable level. (Which means spam snowberries since they only have 1% poison chance and can be found everywhere.) Eating food should be as a need, not a constantly, doing it all the time thing just so I don't get softcapped on action meter.

 

Food and drink crawl up in % too slow when you eat/drink,

 

Encumbrance needs to go away, literally, it has no place in a sandbox/Crafting game. If you want encumbrance then give me bags to find in the wild or crafting, not force me to spend points. ( near-forced Linear playstyle is never a good thing)

 

I spend more time tossing out empty cans and jars because they're causing the encumbrance debuff.

 

Zed take 3 headshots or more, and it feels like there is almost no difference between steel arrows and stone ones.

But it is cool you can pick arrows up off the ground and out of zed, so we have that going for us which is nice.

 

My biggest irk is zed spawning on top of me when I've already cleared a house or area, and the numerous "GOTCHA!" moments the devs put in (zed in the corner of small rooms so if you enter you get smacked) (Okay everything is clear, then WHACK! A silent zed spawns near you, hits you and causes a bleed or something, and because reasons I can't craft a damn first aid bandage to counter act the hp loss.(Oh more forced point spending! ) Very very stupid.

 

The thing I do to avoid all this is make noise so they wake up and I kite them outside to clear them. Then more spawn later when im searching the house, Really? Why?

 

Hiding zed in the walls and ceilings is probably the dumbest thing and makes no sense other than "Gotcha" moments. Especially when they're literally just Hidden In-wall that only contain the zombie with no alternate route to something like a stash room.

 

Farming is atrocious, please revert it back to just picking up crops with the action button. Again, that is just unnecessary tedious for the sake of it. If people want massive farms, let them, balance around that, instead of eating away at different play styles.

 

I've said this before and I shall reiterate it again.

 

This game is the embodiment of tedious and boredom now where the players starts crippled

 

it would be more fun to start the game in a lab or a prison and figure out how to survive long enough to break out into the zombie infested apocalypse.

 

 

Challenge me through Challenge, not by handicapping me.

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Lol what survival games do you play that aren't tedious? No you won't get exactly A,B or C at exactly the same level..they will unlock but that doesn't mean you will get them unless ofcourse this is like alpha 16 perks and people get the exact same thing and items. You know perks like sex rex, miner 69er, the improvements to damage, the traps, etc. It sounds like you and many others are upset that now it's become more of a struggle. Just spawn in the forge or explore to find one. Everything you said still has to be done from the exploring to hoping you get that rare mod.

 

Don't forget to post those amazing survival games without tedium all of us are curious to see those amazing games.

 

I play Mist Survival and Empyrion. There is no tedium there. You don't have to wait five seconds to swing your axe. People who think this is somehow normal should go out and try some other games. This is insanity. This whole stamina simulator is wrong at its very core.

 

Early game is and has always been one of my favorite parts of 7D2D. A17 is the only alpha I played that I find extremely boring. You are so limited in what you can do, it's stupid.

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Me too, I just cancel it these days and get moving.

 

I love the early game. It's the only time I feel worried for my character when there aren't external threats around. I read someone's comment the other day... something like "I don't cheer when finding guns any more, I cheer when finding bones." I think it's a fairly good indication of the stress of the early game that I cheer to find a cooking pot, or even an empty can.

 

I tend not to settle down immediately.

 

I hate the starter quests but I do them for the skill points, and the fact it leads me to a trader. I do like the trader quests though, they can be a good source of healing items, and antibiotics early game. I often get some of my first iron tools from them. I just wish it would pick poi's that were closer over ones that are farther, I mean there are like 5 poi's, right by the trader that can have tier 1 quests, yet it sends me 2 km away.

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I play Mist Survival and Empyrion. There is no tedium there. You don't have to wait five seconds to swing your axe. People who think this is somehow normal should go out and try some other games. This is insanity. This whole stamina simulator is wrong at its very core.

 

Early game is and has always been one of my favorite parts of 7D2D. A17 is the only alpha I played that I find extremely boring. You are so limited in what you can do, it's stupid.

 

I've tried many other games that say they are survival. Mist, The Forrest, Conan, I can't play any of those games for more than 10 minutes.

 

There is something special about 7dtd. I can't put my finger on it but I'll take all the crazy level gate, stamina, food, AI stuff people complain about any day over those other games.

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I play Mist Survival and Empyrion. There is no tedium there. You don't have to wait five seconds to swing your axe. People who think this is somehow normal should go out and try some other games. This is insanity. This whole stamina simulator is wrong at its very core.

 

Early game is and has always been one of my favorite parts of 7D2D. A17 is the only alpha I played that I find extremely boring. You are so limited in what you can do, it's stupid.

 

I have empyrion but I had issues getting into it lastr I played, maybe i'll try it again, Mist Survival I am on the fence on as I am not a big fan of survival games with static maps like ark survival evolved etc. They are fun the first time but later runs it gets old as you know where things are.

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I play Mist Survival and Empyrion. There is no tedium there. You don't have to wait five seconds to swing your axe. People who think this is somehow normal should go out and try some other games. This is insanity. This whole stamina simulator is wrong at its very core.

 

Early game is and has always been one of my favorite parts of 7D2D. A17 is the only alpha I played that I find extremely boring. You are so limited in what you can do, it's stupid.

 

Don't Starve

The Lone Dark

Ark

Factorio

Home behind

Home to Survive 1& 2

Just Survive

Life is Feudal

One hour One Life

Oxygen Not Included

Project Zomboid

Rust

Sheltered

StarBound

Starship Theory

Teleglitch

They Are Billions

Warward

Subterrain

RimWorld

Rebuild (1/2/3)

Minecraft (Yes it has a survival mode and thats primarily what I play)

 

All of these games are survival or have survival elements to them, crafting, ect.

 

None of them screwed it up like 7 days has done.

 

I've played enough games across the board to see what the devs are doing, they're lacking originality when it comes to creating content as far as starting challenges go.

 

The difficulty in this game isn't the game itself, its because all of your abilities are basically taken away and gated behind skill points, thats the wrong way to do it and why the game is lackluster and boring, despite looking appealing graphically, but there's more to a game that the graphics and should stop being the driving force.

 

 

You have so many variety of zeds that you can give special abilities and unique features to really challenge the players, yet all zeds just do the SAME GOD DAMN THING.

 

 

And later, they just have more damn hp and run regardless of day or night. UGH Its tedious to kill irradiated ferals.

 

The best part of this game is its a cross between DayZ and Minecraft where as Zed and PVP + world manipulation and crafting, an amazing combination, yet the devs keep pigeon holing the player into this linear playstyle through the early game and PVE/Single player.

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I've tried many other games that say they are survival. Mist, The Forrest, Conan, I can't play any of those games for more than 10 minutes.

 

There is something special about 7dtd. I can't put my finger on it but I'll take all the crazy level gate, stamina, food, AI stuff people complain about any day over those other games.

 

I think it might be how those are all static maps insted of randomly generated stuff. Thats the main diffrence, none of those games have a random gen map mode as far as I know.

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In the wastelands cooking pots are literally out in the open on small mounds of rubble right next to the roads lmao. A cooking pot should never be hard for anyone to find by the end of day 1. IMO

 

i looted 3 houses in day 1. no pot. first house at day 2, no pot. second house at day 2 i got 10 pots and 2 grills. rng god shows mercy. :D

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i looted 3 houses in day 1. no pot. first house at day 2, no pot. second house at day 2 i got 10 pots and 2 grills. rng god shows mercy. :D

 

LMAO, I have only 1 play through where I couldn't find a cooking pot. No wastelands, searched all the broken corner houses in the burn biome, cleared 2 houses.... nothing lol

 

I feel your pain.

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Play everything from a default or higher difficulty.

 

Its not that its a struggle, its just too damn tedious for a variety of wrong ways, which is really robbing the fun factor for me. I survive entirely fine, I'm just not enjoying myself while doing it.

 

You have to constantly eat to keep your stam softcap at a reasonable level. (Which means spam snowberries since they only have 1% poison chance and can be found everywhere.) Eating food should be as a need, not a constantly, doing it all the time thing just so I don't get softcapped on action meter.

 

Food and drink crawl up in % too slow when you eat/drink,

 

Encumbrance needs to go away, literally, it has no place in a sandbox/Crafting game. If you want encumbrance then give me bags to find in the wild or crafting, not force me to spend points. ( near-forced Linear playstyle is never a good thing)

 

I spend more time tossing out empty cans and jars because they're causing the encumbrance debuff.

 

Zed take 3 headshots or more, and it feels like there is almost no difference between steel arrows and stone ones.

But it is cool you can pick arrows up off the ground and out of zed, so we have that going for us which is nice.

 

My biggest irk is zed spawning on top of me when I've already cleared a house or area, and the numerous "GOTCHA!" moments the devs put in (zed in the corner of small rooms so if you enter you get smacked) (Okay everything is clear, then WHACK! A silent zed spawns near you, hits you and causes a bleed or something, and because reasons I can't craft a damn first aid bandage to counter act the hp loss.(Oh more forced point spending! ) Very very stupid.

 

The thing I do to avoid all this is make noise so they wake up and I kite them outside to clear them. Then more spawn later when im searching the house, Really? Why?

 

Hiding zed in the walls and ceilings is probably the dumbest thing and makes no sense other than "Gotcha" moments. Especially when they're literally just Hidden In-wall that only contain the zombie with no alternate route to something like a stash room.

 

Farming is atrocious, please revert it back to just picking up crops with the action button. Again, that is just unnecessary tedious for the sake of it. If people want massive farms, let them, balance around that, instead of eating away at different play styles.

 

I've said this before and I shall reiterate it again.

 

 

 

it would be more fun to start the game in a lab or a prison and figure out how to survive long enough to break out into the zombie infested apocalypse.

 

 

Challenge me through Challenge, not by handicapping me.

 

Many mod authors also make this mistake of mistaking grind as challenge. Making something take a extra step or 2 to make is not making it more of a challenge its just adding more pointless grind to it.

 

As for the encumbrance I got a modlet that lowers the debuff from 0.026 (2.6% speed reduction per slot) to 0.007 (0.7% speed reduction per slot) You still notice it when you have like 18 slots encumbered, but its no where near as aggravating as the base debuff is. I found the whole idea of giving us a bigger inventory stupid if your going to lock it behind a perk, and make it annoying as hell to use any of those slots without it. Nevermind the fact you need 2 in pack mule to get the old inv size from a16.4. I'd rather it just be a flat 45 slot inv, and remove the encumbrance/packmule skills entirely.

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LMAO, I have only 1 play through where I couldn't find a cooking pot. No wastelands, searched all the broken corner houses in the burn biome, cleared 2 houses.... nothing lol

 

I feel your pain.

 

You can find cooking pots out in the open placed in semi-hidden areas like on top of cabinets and on counter tops, though most players don't see them.

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i looted 3 houses in day 1. no pot. first house at day 2, no pot. second house at day 2 i got 10 pots and 2 grills. rng god shows mercy. :D

 

Yeah rng plays a big factor in a17 with how much fun I have early game, if I don't find a sledge or iron pickaxe at least, I do not have a fun time. The sledge is my go-to for bashing skulls and looting poi's as it now has the highest block damage in the game for tools. Usually don't have much issues finding a cooking pot though. If you see Buzz's Bar Poi it always has I think 2 in the kitchen sitting there, as well as several of the house poi's have pots just sitting there. Many of the store Poi's from a16 did as well.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

You can find cooking pots out in the open placed in semi-hidden areas like on top of cabinets and on counter tops, though most players don't see them.

 

They often have them positioned in a way they are easy to miss if your not looking for them I notice. Me? I got eyes like a hawk hunting for one till I find my first one, I check everywhere they usually can be. You also no longer need a anvil to make a cooking pot, so if you find a working forge you can just make one easy.

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Yeah rng plays a big factor in a17 with how much fun I have early game, if I don't find a sledge or iron pickaxe at least, I do not have a fun time. The sledge is my go-to for bashing skulls and looting poi's as it now has the highest block damage in the game for tools. Usually don't have much issues finding a cooking pot though. If you see Buzz's Bar Poi it always has I think 2 in the kitchen sitting there, as well as several of the house poi's have pots just sitting there. Many of the store Poi's from a16 did as well.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

They often have them positioned in a way they are easy to miss if your not looking for them I notice. Me? I got eyes like a hawk hunting for one till I find my first one, I check everywhere they usually can be. You also no longer need a anvil to make a cooking pot, so if you find a working forge you can just make one easy.

 

Yep they do that with some hidden bags and stashes too, I like that my personal perception plays a role in those situations.

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Encumbrance needs to go away, literally, it has no place in a sandbox/Crafting game.

i hated it first, but i find it reasonable. you need to progress, not having everything at the beginning. just pick few essentials and leave the rest. put chest on the road and mark it on map, so you can return later. problem solved.

 

You have to constantly eat to keep your stam softcap at a reasonable level. (Which means spam snowberries since they only have 1% poison chance and can be found everywhere.) Eating food should be as a need, not a constantly, doing it all the time thing just so I don't get softcapped on action meter.

you answer is in your post. you eat as needed. if you spend energy, you need to feed.

 

My biggest irk is zed spawning on top of me when I've already cleared a house

you obviously did not clear the area yet.

 

Hiding zed in the walls and ceilings is probably the dumbest thing and makes no sense other than "Gotcha" moments. Especially when they're literally just Hidden In-wall that only contain the zombie with no alternate route to something like a stash room.

that is hilarious and entertaining part of game. people hid in closet or ceiling during zombie outbreak, died there and turned zombies. btw, if you pay attention, you learn quickly to spot them and lure out of closet before you pass them and get cornered.

 

Challenge me through Challenge, not by handicapping me.

absolutely agree. and surviving without experience and skills is challenge. smaller backpack or 3 headshots is not handicapping. it is challenge and you get better in time, if you spend your points wisely.

 

happy bloody x-mas ;)

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wildaxeman1, I could be wrong but my interpretation of OnlyMeiyas comment on needing to eat is related to Food being tied 1 for 1 to max Stamina. Not that activitys shouldn't burn food.

 

It doesn't make 'sense' to a lot of folks (basing this on numerous comments in various threads) that being 90% 'full' means you can only have 90% of your max stamina.

 

In real life I don't pack a bag of sandwhichs around w me in the gym and eat one after every set or two, just so I can have enough stamina to do a 15 rep set. Sure I may take a drink of water every couple sets, but I don't drink a liter when I do.

 

What would be more intuitive would be if stamina regen'd to 100% until 'food' fell to around 25%. Then start lowering max stamina. So when we 'need' to eat, it's more like having a big meal, instead of the constant 'snacking' we're having to do now.

 

At least to me that would be a much more 'natural' mechanic.

---

and in another post I offered the idea of two-toning the stamina bar, so maybe 'Food' is represented by yellow, and Stamina is Blue. The portion of the bar where they overlap is Green.

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TOO MUCH GRIND?

A lot of you people on these forums are playing the wrong game imo lol. I can't figure out what kind of game you people even want? Minecraft creative? No? You hate grind though? Or at least claim to hate it.

It should be obvious we prefer Minecraft Survival. A16 WAS Minecraft Survival with zombie boobs. People made fantastic structures and no one lost their ♥♥♥♥ing mind over stupid cooking pots.

 

TFP have two class of players; it's arguable which group is bigger but a large portion of the player base is playing this game because it has voxels and a building hierarchy. The other group is playing because they want gritty survival. Unfortunately for everyone, the early game is the only time gritty survival matters; once you're established the main reason to keep playing is to build. It's definitely not the amazing combat mechanics or endless variety of loot that keeps someone going past the 7th day. By making the early game needlessly frustrating, the first group (the builders) are being penalized with an early-game experience they never asked for. No alpha has been this ridiculously front-loaded with challenge.

 

I am in that first group. I'm here to build in a survival environment. I'm not here to survive in a quasi-building environment. I work 40 hours a week. I get two days off where I don't have to drive to work, drive to the store, drive to the dentist, drive to the mechanic, drive to the DMV, pay my taxes, pay my bills, etc. Two days and a couple hours after work the rest of the week. Right now the prospect of 7DTD is not "this sounds fun", it is "do I want to put ~7 hours into this game before I can build anything".

 

I would drop the sarcasm and agree a second mode is the easiest solution: one with level-gates, and one without. The rest of the early-game roadblocks, I can manage with some planning and luck. They also need to drop the cost of perks back to 1. If we're going to double-down on perks, I'd prefer to cost to be uniform and predictable.

 

RIP skills; we hardly knew you.

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It should be obvious we prefer Minecraft Survival. A16 WAS Minecraft Survival with zombie boobs. People made fantastic structures and no one lost their ♥♥♥♥ing mind over stupid cooking pots.

 

TFP have two class of players; it's arguable which group is bigger but a large portion of the player base is playing this game because it has voxels and a building hierarchy. The other group is playing because they want gritty survival. Unfortunately for everyone, the early game is the only time gritty survival matters; once you're established the main reason to keep playing is to build. It's definitely not the amazing combat mechanics or endless variety of loot that keeps someone going past the 7th day. By making the early game needlessly frustrating, the first group (the builders) are being penalized with an early-game experience they never asked for. No alpha has been this ridiculously front-loaded with challenge.

 

I am in that first group. I'm here to build in a survival environment. I'm not here to survive in a quasi-building environment. I work 40 hours a week. I get two days off where I don't have to drive to work, drive to the store, drive to the dentist, drive to the mechanic, drive to the DMV, pay my taxes, pay my bills, etc. Two days and a couple hours after work the rest of the week. Right now the prospect of 7DTD is not "this sounds fun", it is "do I want to put ~7 hours into this game before I can build anything".

 

I would drop the sarcasm and agree a second mode is the easiest solution: one with level-gates, and one without. The rest of the early-game roadblocks, I can manage with some planning and luck. They also need to drop the cost of perks back to 1. If we're going to double-down on perks, I'd prefer to cost to be uniform and predictable.

 

RIP skills; we hardly knew you.

 

Interesting post.

 

I agree with a lot of this.

 

Builder here as well.

I'm fine with it being in a survival setting but that's not why I keep playing.

I spend hundreds of hours making very large builds.

So do many others.

 

Yeah you make some very good points here.

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wildaxeman1, I could be wrong but my interpretation of OnlyMeiyas comment on needing to eat is related to Food being tied 1 for 1 to max Stamina. Not that activitys shouldn't burn food.

 

It doesn't make 'sense' to a lot of folks (basing this on numerous comments in various threads) that being 90% 'full' means you can only have 90% of your max stamina.

 

In real life I don't pack a bag of sandwhichs around w me in the gym and eat one after every set or two, just so I can have enough stamina to do a 15 rep set. Sure I may take a drink of water every couple sets, but I don't drink a liter when I do.

 

What would be more intuitive would be if stamina regen'd to 100% until 'food' fell to around 25%. Then start lowering max stamina. So when we 'need' to eat, it's more like having a big meal, instead of the constant 'snacking' we're having to do now.

 

At least to me that would be a much more 'natural' mechanic.

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and in another post I offered the idea of two-toning the stamina bar, so maybe 'Food' is represented by yellow, and Stamina is Blue. The portion of the bar where they overlap is Green.

 

one bar is enough. but i agree. that stamina should not lower as soon hunger starts kick in. 25% is surely too low, but in my opinion, 75% could be about right. but then again, now you can overeat. i guess 150% is max as MM posted way back. it could be changed to 125% as someone mentioned. still, we need to eat, if we do something

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i hated it first, but i find it reasonable. you need to progress, not having everything at the beginning. just pick few essentials and leave the rest. put chest on the road and mark it on map, so you can return later. problem solved.

 

 

you answer is in your post. you eat as needed. if you spend energy, you need to feed.

 

 

you obviously did not clear the area yet.

 

 

that is hilarious and entertaining part of game. people hid in closet or ceiling during zombie outbreak, died there and turned zombies. btw, if you pay attention, you learn quickly to spot them and lure out of closet before you pass them and get cornered.

 

 

happy bloody x-mas ;)

 

 

I hated and still hate it, encumbrance locked behind a skill point is forced point spending, I can deal with it if I can find something or craft something later to deal with it.

 

My point was about max stam, not hunger, hunger meter isn't a problem for me.

 

Yes I did clear them, I watched as later while leaving they spawned on the floor, got up and attacked me.

 

absolutely agree. and surviving without experience and skills is challenge. smaller backpack or 3 headshots is not handicapping. it is challenge and you get better in time, if you spend your points wisely.

 

 

No, its not, all it does it makes me swing my stupid stone axe more, to grind more rock, to grind more wood, to search more bird nests, causing more activity related stamina softcap drain so I can craft more damn arrows to land 3 more head shots on several more zed.

 

That is NOT challenge, that is a tedious, arduous grind for the sake of arbitrary reasons of stretching out the early game and content.

 

Handicapping the player is not a challenge, it just creates more steps and forces us to spend more points than should really be necessary to achieve something we already should possess.

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