How to possibly make the zombies SPREAD OUT their attacks.

[DiesFourth]

I originally posted this at the 67,436th commeny in another thread but some1 said no1 would ever see anything due to the amount of comments so i'll re-post it here so maybe Gazz or some1 can stumble across it : )

 

 

I rarely ask for anything but im going to ask for this.

 

I politely ask for zombies in 7 days to surround bases and attack/try to breach from all directions at ounce. I mean a full 360 degree perimeter.

 

Lets imagine a mini horde of 20 random low level zombies so were all looking at the same scenario. Now lets imagine a 10x10 square structure made out of concrete 4 blocks high. Now were all seeing the same thing.

 

How i propose to achieve this. Currently zombies sense and all attack the weakest part/point of any structure. Fine lets go with that.

 

Assuming all 4 walls are of the same material they will all attack 1 specific spot. I propose instead of all zombies ganging up on 1 lower block section the the block directly above it to gain access ( gaining a damage bonus for every added attacker in the process ) almost instantly with 6 or more zombies all attacking the same 2 blocks.

 

Im thinking once 3 zombies all attack the same blocks all future zombies attack 2-3 blocks away instead of all attacking the same 2 block basically melting them. So, we had 20 zombies basically now in groups of 3 all attacking 2-3 blocks away from any other gang of 3 so its now 7 different groups of 3 all attacking different blocks 2-3 blocks away from any other group of 3.

 

In my mind this accomplishes a few things.

 

1. 20 zombies dont breach in 3.5 seconds and all conga line through the same hole making the rext of the structure useless.

 

2. 3 zombies in a gang does considerably less damage allowing you time to repair or defend at least a few areas of being attacked.

 

3. This imo spreads the attacking groups out and makes the player decide which group of 3 is the greatest threar and act accordingly.

 

4. Actually makes spike traps or defences placed around the exterior perimeter worth a damn instead of just the few traps in from of the 1 point currently being attacked by all 20 zombies.

 

5. The sheer psychological effect of possibly being surrounded adds tension and anxiety to the game like we used to feel.

 

The same principle could then be applied to horde night. Instead of all zombies attacking he same spot wether above ground or underground the player would hear attacks coming from basically every different direction if above ground.

 

If underground instead of 2-3 areas of attack/digging they would also " spread out " and could possibly gain access in a 360 degree circle around the underground player.

 

The threats at this point are coming from 1 direction and basically boring and predictable. Imo this or a system that achieved the same "spread out " effect would add ALOT to the game.

 

Thoughts and or critiques ?

[LuckyStar]

Wow.

 

All that effort to type all that stuff for something TFP are already working on.

 

 

 

Well... at least you know to have some good ideas.

[DiesFourth]

Wow.

 

All that effort to type all that stuff for something TFP are already working on.

 

 

 

 

Well... at least you know to have some good ideas.

 

This is the forum to offer feedback, and thats my feedback : )

[LuckyStar]

Fair enough. =)

[AtomicUs5000]

Here is what I do to spread things out... if that is the type of strategy you want to go for.

 

The way the AI is right now, they are either going to go for the quickest path to you, or take out the weakest point that is in the way. SO, what you need to do is make it so there is an open path to you, or make a weak point on purpose. Next, make it so the zombies have to follow some path to get to that open / weak spot. Along the path, dig holes 2 or 3 blocks down and fill with spikes. What will happen is the zombies will run on top of the spikes. The spikes will break and the zombies will fall down one block. The next time, it will be two blocks. The zombie that falls in will simply be stepped on by the other zombies passing by. The zombie in the hole will be forced to attack the wall next to it. If this happens along the whole path, you end up with a forced spread out attack.

The thing to note though is to make sure your barriers and structures go down a couple blocks into the dirt.

 

EDIT: When I build this way, I usually end up with a trench one block wide, that goes around the whole base, in a spiral. This is also my way into the base, so I usually just cover the trench with frames until horde night. After horde night, I refill the trench with spikes, cover with frames, and extend my spiral another wall length or two in preparation for the next one. Above the trench, about 5 blocks in the air, I have my platform with bars to shoot through.

[DiesFourth]

I appreciate the info, thank you.

 

That staggers the zombies but if im reading it correctly they still conga line. Im hoping they dont spread out single file im hoping they spread out along the entire perimeter and attack from all directions at once. Nany different groups from many different directions imo forcing the player to choose which group/threat is closest to breaching and taking action against that group at the risk of another group gaining access while your dealing with the 1st threat.

 

Basically anything BUT a conga line of any kind is what im hoping for lol

[AtomicUs5000]

If there is an opening to you, they will line up right away. If there is no way to you, they will just start hitting things, but at some point one of them is going to break a block, which will make a weak point, which could then result in all of them gathering together to that same spot.

 

In my post, what I describe is definitely them lining up. I leave a path open for them to get to me. But, since that path is a spiral, and since they end up in holes, it forces the attack to be all around.

 

Pretty soon there will be an update to the AI though. The update is going to randomize the choices the zombies make a little. So, you might have some that go for the weak point, some that might just take the shortest path to you regardless of what is in the way, and some that might just randomly attack something nearby.

[Kalarro]

I want the same.

@AtomicUs thx but we know, it's easy. We don't need a way to survive, we want the defense building to be fun. I don't want to build a path/maze/exploiting pathing structure. I want to build a fort

[Ghostlight]

Here is what I do to spread things out... if that is the type of strategy you want to go for.

 

The way the AI is right now, they are either going to go for the quickest path to you, or take out the weakest point that is in the way. SO, what you need to do is make it so there is an open path to you, or make a weak point on purpose. Next, make it so the zombies have to follow some path to get to that open / weak spot. Along the path, dig holes 2 or 3 blocks down and fill with spikes. What will happen is the zombies will run on top of the spikes. The spikes will break and the zombies will fall down one block. The next time, it will be two blocks. The zombie that falls in will simply be stepped on by the other zombies passing by. The zombie in the hole will be forced to attack the wall next to it. If this happens along the whole path, you end up with a forced spread out attack.

The thing to note though is to make sure your barriers and structures go down a couple blocks into the dirt..

 

I have zero interest in playing this game.

[DiesFourth]

If there is an opening to you, they will line up right away. If there is no way to you, they will just start hitting things, but at some point one of them is going to break a block, which will make a weak point, which could then result in all of them gathering together to that same spot.

 

In my post, what I describe is definitely them lining up. I leave a path open for them to get to me. But, since that path is a spiral, and since they end up in holes, it forces the attack to be all around.

 

Pretty soon there will be an update to the AI though. The update is going to randomize the choices the zombies make a little. So, you might have some that go for the weak point, some that might just take the shortest path to you regardless of what is in the way, and some that might just randomly attack something nearby.

 

This is good news : ) Im still holding out hope that they spread them out as well.

 

Like along with those random choices they add in another algorithm that tells them if theres several zombies already in front of them to basically " flank" that group and then go into thier random choices.

[SylenThunder]

Here is what I do to spread things out... if that is the type of strategy you want to go for.

 

The way the AI is right now, they are either going to go for the quickest path to you, or take out the weakest point that is in the way. ...

This would be nice if it were true.

 

I have a base that is a perfect square. All block paths inward are exactly the same with the exception of maybe the corners of the square itself.

All blocks on the square are the same material, have the same hitpoints, and are all fully repaired.

Yet no matter where I am standing inside the 10x10 square, and no matter what direction the horde comes from, they always go to the exact same block. Every time. Without fail. ONE SINGLE BLOCK. If they hit any others, it's accidental.

 

Have experienced this in each iteration since b221.

 

The AI definitely still needs work.

[AtomicUs5000]

This would be nice if it were true.

 

I have a base that is a perfect square. All block paths inward are exactly the same with the exception of maybe the corners of the square itself.

All blocks on the square are the same material, have the same hitpoints, and are all fully repaired.

Yet no matter where I am standing inside the 10x10 square, and no matter what direction the horde comes from, they always go to the exact same block. Every time. Without fail. ONE SINGLE BLOCK. If they hit any others, it's accidental.

 

Have experienced this in each iteration since b221.

 

The AI definitely still needs work.

 

Then you need to have an opening on purpose. Like I said, if there is no open path to you, they will just attack the weak point.

[AtomicUs5000]

I want the same.

@AtomicUs thx but we know, it's easy. We don't need a way to survive, we want the defense building to be fun. I don't want to build a path/maze/exploiting pathing structure. I want to build a fort

 

OP was looking for a way to spread out attacks. I provided a way to do it.

[SylenThunder]

Then you need to have an opening on purpose. Like I said, if there is no open path to you, they will just attack the weak point.

That's just it though. There isn't a "weak point", or an opening. They still always to to the exact same block. It's just weird. By the way the AI should work in its current state, they should attack whatever side is closest to me. They don't.

[AtomicUs5000]

That's just it though. There isn't a "weak point", or an opening. They still always to to the exact same block. It's just weird. By the way the AI should work in its current state, they should attack whatever side is closest to me. They don't.

 

For whatever reason, the AI is deciding that it is the best spot. If that spot was upgraded more, or had additional blocks behind it, it will choose somewhere else. It isn't always the closest path it chooses if all paths are blocked by equal strength. It might choose what is closest to a secondary path that is weaker or open.

[Guest]

OP was looking for a way to spread out attacks.

 

No, he was suggesting the AI be adjusted so that zombies wouldn't be as predictable as they are now.

[AtomicUs5000]

But it is being adjusted... this has already been confirmed. Until then, this what can be done if spreading out the attack is what you are trying to accomplish.

[DiesFourth]

OP was looking for a way to spread out attacks. I provided a way to do it.

 

Then i wasnt clear enough....... i dont want to stagger attacks all from the same direction.

 

I want attacks to actually come from different directions, ideally all 4 cardinal directions so essentaily all for sides pf a 10x10 box at the same time.

[AtomicUs5000]

Then i wasnt clear enough....... i dont want to stagger attacks all from the same direction.

 

I want attacks to actually come from different directions, ideally all 4 cardinal directions so essentaily all for sides pf a 10x10 box at the same time.

 

I see. The only way I have come close to something like that is by not making a path to me, and having a platform suspended by many many pillars. At first, the zombies will seem to randomly attack pillars, but, even in this case, some of those pillars will start to break, and then all of the other zombies are going to rush to help out in that spot.

 

When they add the randomization to the AI, it might be what you are hoping for, but I don't think it will... or it will but only to a certain degree. Their main goal is to make zombies somewhat stupid, but not so stupid that they don't take advantage of breaks in your defense. I suspect what will happen in the future is they may attack anywhere, but as soon as one of them makes some progress, the majority of the others are going to follow.