Viktoriusiii

Hey! Don't come at me with that sassy snark! If you ran down a hill full speed, you'd probably break more than just an ankle. So shut up and love the drama like the overlords have comanded you to do.

Okay so you said running away... what about traprooms you have to fall into to trigger the Z's? And if one irradiated feral feral (what are these big guys called now?) wakes up, you are screwed. I play with friends on only warrior and one spawned right next to me and nearly twoshotted me, even though I was wearing good armor (not playing stealth anymore until this gets fixed :D) I will FIGHT for the removal of the early dog horde till I breathe my last breath. New players just die for no reason, veterans dread it and hope they can get enough ammunition in time and since they understand supports now, you cant even pillar up anymore and shoot them with arrows! Also sure. With enough balancing, making it as unnoticable as possible is an option. But if you argue "hey if we make the chance REALLY low its not that bad anymore" why have it at all? It doesn't offer anyone anything except TFPs' feeling of "we give them moments to remember and streamers will scream, so publicity" i guess. Either you don't care because you have big guns or you hate them. I have not yet seen someone going preparation (stealth/int) say "oh man I love it when they randomly wake up! So tense!" And I say it again the "its realistic because in real life you can't be perfect" argument does not fly in a survival rpg, except it is made to be unpredictable. Like developing an infection. But then there needs to be counterplay to that. Use better medicine, treat it with something you gathered earlier... Give me one counterplay to the hidden drop in Z's that just wake up once you land. You can't run, because you will need to open the exit first and the Z's are already awake. If they reduce wake up sleepers by >95%... whatever. I will still say it is stupid, but at least it does not invalidate a whole playstyle anymore. But I seriously doubt they will do that. Because every POI is built around these sleeper volumes. So either they scrap the mechanic completely, or they leave it because MM played it once and he thinks its fine. #sorryfortheagression. But this is just such a glaring flaw that is super easy to fix, and yet mods and devs seem to think this is totally fine.

May I introduce "Splinter Cell" to you? Pretty much the best stealth games I have played (only up to Chaos Theory though, since I am old) And they still hold up to this day. Stealth has its pros and cons. And once you mess with the pros without giving the cons some adjustment as well, it just doesnt feel right. That is what sleeper wake ups are right now. You can sneak so well outside, then BOOM everything changes once the fire... station gets looted. It is not only bad for stealth, it is also game-logic-breaking. You have inventory slots. That is a rule. Everything weighs the same. That is an ingame rule. If you suddenly had an item that only Agility could carry, that instead uses a weightbad for some reason, it breaks this whole system. If my sneak is at close to 0, I should not get detected. (make sneaking overall harder I would like that) But stepping on one specific block, or standing still inside a room and suddenly all hell breaks lose for no discernable reason is not just bad. It is the worst. You know why nobody complained about garbagepiles making sounds: 1: Is it clear what happens? Yes. The detection metre is visible, the trash is visible, it gives audio feedback and the reaction makes sense as well. 2: Does it have a reasonable counterplay? Yes. Either don't walk on it or destroy it. Or you can even buy perks to make it even less effective. 3: Does it force the player into a situation or does it need the player to make a mistake? The latter. 4: Does it fit with all the ingame logic? Yes. Everything you do makes sounds, so does a stepping on a pile of garbage. Nothing feels out of place (except for sometimes the placement but honestly that is a minor thing) And now do these questions with the sleeper volumes: 1: Is it clear what happens? No. They just randomly wake up once you are inside the room. Your stealthmeter hasn't changed, so why? 2: Does it have a reasonable counterplay? No. Most of them are behind cover, so you need to enter and fight them. Sometimes you even need to drop into a locked room, fighting in closed quarters with an agility build. 3: Does it force the player into a situation or does it need the player to make a mistake? The former. There is no way to avoid this except to avoid POIs. That would mean avoiding quests and the best loot. 4: Does it fit with all the ingame logic? No. Everything stealthrelated in the whole rest of the game is based on that indicator. Every perk affects this indicator. Every zombie can be snuk up on to 1m if you are silent enough. So why do these Z's wake up? Because TFPs want moments for their players. And that is it.

never said it needs to be complex additions. But right now, we have nothing. But there is nothing in 7D2D we only know of a duke. Nothing more. I said this a lot. This isn't an RPG because there is no story to play a character in. It is an empty world. You can pretend to be cheeseman McFly in Fifa, that doesnt make it an RPG I will refrain from telling you that these old games shouldn't be a standart because they were limited by their times. But what I will tell you is that... honestly I don't know anymore xD I just wanted to say that without hating on these old classics. If you can replace an NPC with a questboard, it is not an NPC. Not even by MMO standarts (where they can't move bc of syncing)

Define "character". They do not have stats and do not interact with the world. Just because they are in human form and repeat the same 3-5 voicelines does not make them a "character". They do not have behaviour. None that a blackboard couldn't do Use implements gameplay... debatable... but fine but I could have done that poi without it as well Quest idea: "make POI 'x' livable" 5 different trader pois (one for each queststage all in the same city) clear it and the trader will move the next morning. Should be easy to script as well. You now just need 5 stages of traderpoi. Then you could even add patroling guards and stuff. All they need to do is shoot zombies and move from predetermined poin A to B. BOOM already much more worlddevelopment than the last 5 alphas (15 was dishong tower with the behemoth sized hole right?) combined

Even in an MMO, the one with the least interactable NPCs, they give you a story. They explain the world and what is happening. Quests might be "go here and collect 'x' " but there is a whole story about a sick pig that needs the medicine, but she is too old and her niece is currently on a trip to the next city. And later you meet that niece and she gives you a reward for helping her aunt. Here it is literally just a blackboard "clear POI 'a'" here is your reward. "Clear POI 'b'" here is your reward. "Clear POI 'a' again" ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-player_character They do not have dialogue. They do not move. They do not enhance the world, because they do not live in it. They have no character except a few witty, always repeating lines. Oh and also boobies :3 I am sorry, but even if they are very much three dimensional, they are still as flat as a blackboard :'D

Adding more loot is not "content". We need stuff to do. Goals to achive. This is not minecraft where it is all about building. It CAN be. But then its not a survival game. "Content" I mean:

NPCs are interactable, have/add to the story and fill the world with life. Now they are just a blackboard of quests. A poi with a moving blackboard. Can't kill or interact with it besides that. That is not an NPC. I am sorry.

I kinda disagree with what players want. We don'T need more weapons or even different vehicles (although new skins would be a nice little addition) We need content. A story. Bandits that have been in talks since A12 I believe. We had a LOT of graphic overhauls. We had so many features deleted. I just want my NPCs and a story. And coming with that a late game. (building an NPC defended Fort and stuff like that) Everything else are minor addition and balancing issues. Pois were fine and are fine (once sleeper to hidden sleeper % has been adjusted) I like the quest tier reward system, but it is a bonus, not a major feature. RWG is going the right way props for that (wilderness needs some love tho) Building was fine before and when compared to how electricity is a one way street, could be considered a masterpiece (honestly. I know MM said he is fine with how electricity works, but not being able to run more than one powersource, meaning needing different grids... UGH) It has still a lot of flaws... but honestly, if they would just stop reworking every feature and add content, it wouldn't even matter.

I am sure that my tests were without feral sense. How? Well I increased the spawns by 4x because I like to feel like I am in a zombie apocalypse... but I forgot to turn off feral sense. Good lord killing 50 zombies with only a club is a chore... and then I went into the city xDDD Needless to say without feral sense and 4x spawn, the game was much more reasonable xD

Yea I did. While I am not sure where these volumes are, I did extensive testing for my 2nd thread. And I actually found out that zombies lose you extremely quickly if oyu hide. Which is actually a lot of fun. (this wasn'T always the case and like most veterans, learning something new is hard so I just always acted as if they will know where I am once spotted. Now I hide in a closet and stab them from behind. Very rewarding) But it does not feel fair, since the stealth indicator is actually not an indicator. I can have 8 stealth and everything wakes up 90% of the time and sometimes I just sneaksprint my way through half the poi with 30 visibility. And "shadows are important" is the reason why this is so stupid. Because there is not a way to see where you are illuminated AND lightsources are either nearly indestructible (from afar) or obstructed. So it is like "hey this is the path!" but then there is a flashlight pointing right at it and you just think "oh god why?? It needs a LO'T more balancing before this feels anywhere near fair and good.

Simple solution: 5 units needed for a seed, 1 for the food (or 25 for a seed and keep recipes as they are now) This means you can farm a lot from one seed, while keeping up that farm is still challenging.

Seems perfectly reasonable. Wouldn'T want the player to be able to snipe the zombies. The player needs action. Who needs freedom. 🧂 🧂 🧂 Okay enough salt. This is how the sleeper system works. In order to combar players waking up an entire poi and guiding them outside, they want to make these encounters "instanced" and this is just one of the more obvious results. Happens basicially everywhere. If you aren't within the sleeper volume you might already see the red dots, but they aren't spawned in yet. Especially if you are on a different heightlevel than the volume you look at.

I say it again: If you absolutely HAVE to have sleeper volumes (they have only downsides, when compared to the normal sneaksystem) use them in the whole room, not on a single block. But the problems of sleeper volumes are so vast, I can't see any justification for them. They feel unnatural -why does the Z' 15m away wake up? -I moved at snails pace with 1 visibility, this is just unfair! -why did EVERY zombie wake up at the same time? -so I can knock out the wall and it doesn't wake them up, but stepping on this magical block does? -why do they only hear me on entry and not while I am in the room? and a lot more that won't come to my mind right now. Just use the basic system and lower the requirements for sleepers to hear you. Hell you can still use the volume system by waking up every zombie once one zombie breaks a "hidden" wall (and makes a sound).

Pfff! I can live without your like! 😑 ... 😕 ... ☹️ ... 🥺 okay, okay I will admit that point three was just a rant and not too serious (although I still feel it is valid :D) that is why I said I have 2 points now please give me the like! 😫 Ch-chess??? o_o Who talked about chess? xD Did I miss something? But seriously EVERY game that is about survival and/or competition needs to be fair. And even if some games use rng to simulate drama, once the player notices, it is ONLY a detriment. And TFPs have not filled me with confidence when it comes to subtlety. *sneaks through Hotel POI where EVERY GOD DAMN ZOMBIE is in a room that has auto-aggro behind walls* Just imagine in darksouls, if attackpatters were recognizable 99% of the time and then suddenly, without a warning, you are dead because "you can't predict every hit in real life" WTF? Not fair, not fun, no reason. Even worse: this doesn't happen unless you haven't been hit for 2 minutes, because you went the dodge build. And you need some drama or the game will get boring! You don't lose anything, so why do you care? NO!

DnD and 7D2D are fundamentally different though. D&D is storybased. So the game IS the story. So failure is part of the story. 7D2D is a survival game. So if we extrapolate this to the extreme, how would you feel if there was a dice roll for you to die or not? The game should only punish you, if you do something wrong. So if you get hit, you have a chance to get debuffed. If you are too loud/walked over trash, the Z's have a chance to wake up. But if you did everything right and are still getting punished, it doesnt feel great. The point at which it doesnt feel unfair anymore is the one where the chance is so small as to be nearly nonexistent (talking about <1%) I see NO reason why you shouldn't just increase hearing from the sleepers by a large amount. I mean they don't wake up if I go over 30 for 1 sec, but if I continue to stay over 30 they wake up. So lower this number to 20 for normals, 15 for ferals 10 for irradiated 5 for irradiated ferals (do those still exist?)

Ah to be young/new and full of hope 😜

As someone who opened TWO threads about this (although different issues) I can say that I like the idea of hidden sleepers. The fix is twofold: 1: reduce hidden sleepers. By about 90% (maybe even more. I am serious. More than a hand full and you expect them, learn where they could be and check every cupboard kinda like how behind every picture was loot). Anything more than that feels cheap and you start expecting it. 2: auto wake up Z's when you LEAVE the volume at the exit This is far more dramatic since your escaperoute is cut off and you solve the backtracking. (Dont autofocus them. Set them to wander and let stealth do the rest.) 3. NO RNG WAKE UPS!!! Dont. Increase sleeper hearing by 200%, but don't do it via checks/dicerolls

I do not think that horror goes away with play time. It shrinks, but going away... well maybe I am just a scardicat. I can watch playthroughs of certain horror games over and over and still be scared @%$#less. Tbc it is a different kind of game (the powerless one) but still. And I was actually scared n the first night outside as well, because of the sounds. And I am not scared of dying, but simply because the situation is scary. But as I said... I am easily scared (which is even more condemning, if I say it is not a horror game anymore :D)

did you even read what I said about A20? I had this same fear in A20 when the sounds at night were there. I know more than ever... but the game was actually scary. But that was only one time... back then it was much more often, because it was a horror game. This is a zombies lasher/looter-shooter. I would bet money that if you asked back then if the game was scary and atmospheric and nowadays, it would be a massive difference. One more aspect of horror is helplessness. Early you never had any real weapon for the first 14 days. I was SO happy when I found a crossbow on day 12. Now, if I don't have a T1 or T2 gun after 3 days, it was bad rng.

Damn I miss those sounds. Ah back when 7d2d was a horror game. Good times. Don't get me wrong, I like the looter shooter it is today. Just not horror anymore. (although the night sounds they have implemented are a good start, it doesn't feel scary 95% of the time) Horror isn't about difficulty. An opponent I know but is strong is far less scary than an unknown opponent. Fog... creepy music... knowing they are looking for you... THAT is horror. I told this story a hand full of times before. But my most memorable moment (which actually repeated somewhat in A20 because of the new sounds) was in one of the earliest alphas. It was nighttime, those sounds were there... I was huddled in a corner of my 4x4 wooden house. And I heard zombies running outside. They never hit the house even once. But I was SCARED @%$#LESS!!! That was great horror. And yes I didn't know the game as much as now. But the new sounds in A20 made me feel similar when I was in my mine at night and I heard a zombie. So its not only the knowledge, but the game is just not as much horror anymore. And sounds are an important part of that.

It was released in late 2013 as Alpha 8. So if that game wasn't pumped out in under a year, I think 10 years are a fair estimate... or did I miss something? Pls correct me if so

@Rolandbasicially every alpha game has a steam update that explains why something was changed. For 7d2d the changelog is massive, but loads of it is just new additions. But gameplay changes should be explained. More community interaction would be nice... buuuut I am already glad it is not A11-13 bad xD Where there were no Moderators and players had to run the support channels ahhh good old times

@RipClaw very happy to see that there are still users fighting the good fight. Everything you say I agree with. 16.4 was the best progression system to date abusers will always exist. Overhauling an entire system because a few players did that is ludicrous the demolisher not having a single way to counter him is absolutely stupid (shooting his light for a fraction of his hp should deal massive damage to him and deactivate the bomb, not trigger it!) and farmplots... are alright. In an apocalyptic wasteland, the ground might be irradiated. Fair enough. But now they are no longer the limiting factor, so why do they still exist/are mandatory for farming? Everything TFPs do feels like you said, like a mood swing. Trying out stuff is nice, but they never think things through. What it affects, how it interacts with the rest of the game. If I had one statement that they would be able to read it is: "Think things through. Hell I'll even raise these points for free if you ask nicely." because basically every change is a cluster**** and gets patched up with bandaids. Examples: And there is much MUCH more that I can't remember because it has been 8 years already. I just want them to think about it before they implement something, instead of applying a bandaid afterward. It is like they see a problem and jump on the solution, without questioning it first or doing some more research. OBVIOUSLY they do... but that is what it feels like. Issues that are pretty obvious, or should be, to those that know what is coming... Well... my vacation is over tomorrow, so this might be my last rant for quite some time Hope you enjoyed it