[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

Has the A21 been moved to the next Christmas sale?

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

36 minutes ago, Melange said:

And this is one of the stark differences between a nurturing parent and a determined tyrant. 

 

No zed as yet has wielded a shotgun against me, but that could change I suppose. Don't think "wooaaaw" would be my exclamation though.

 

This game is not the best tool to teach one's offspring about life in the urban/suburban jungle imo.   Actually don't know of a game that is appropriate. But it does show that planning and knowledge gained through survivable misfortune are vital. 

 

I taught my offspring how to shelter, make fire and do well in making money. And it didn't require a video game. 😎

Well done. Did I wrote somewhere that I teach children at 7dtd? 

 

It's funny how you ridiculed my grammatical error in one paragraph and showed in the same place that you can't read. This is post-meta-irony I guess

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

7 hours ago, quyxkh said:

 

 

So you know the game doesn't force you to play with traders at all and you've gone back and played without them many times, again and again.

 

First time for everything I guess. Time to find out how to mute someone on this forum.

What is the contradiction? How should my criticism even relate to how I play? Whether I play with the trader or not is not important. This does not change the fact that the trader is currently very poorly designed and ruins the game. And you can’t oppose anything except to be offended and throw me to the mute

[Is there an RPG "factor" when shooting zombies?]

51 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Multiple people on Steam claimed they shot a video of that happening.

Didn't check it out myself, but I remember watching at least one some time ago.

that is, there is no proof video. only numerous complaints remain. but like I said, people really like it. in any shooter there is a lot of whining about bad shooting mechanics

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

32 minutes ago, Pernicious said:

Not who you were replying to, but to me, a min-maxer is someone who choses to grind something less enjoyable, because they derive more pleasure from the achievement than the rest of the game itself.

 

Nobody can read your motivations, but talking about efficiency in a leisure activity makes as much sense as saying "this is the most efficient way to spend time with my kids". The game, as far as I know, does not "force" you to play in a partcular way. It doesn't lock out end game content if you don't build a base next to a trader and farm it. It doesn't crash if you decide you want to spend time exploring and picking flowers.

 

Most people cannot see the prison of their own mind. The game does not force you to play a certain way, your desire to play "efficiently" does.

In that case, either your "min-maxer" label doesn't work for me, or you're wrong.

 

I'm interested in a game if it has a task. If there is a problem, then I try to solve it. The interest is to come up with the best solution

 

I understand that there are people who log into the game for 2 hours a week by opening a can of beer to "dunk the zombies" and screaming "wooaaaw" after getting shot in the head with a shotgun. Complete one quest then wander around the neighborhood a bit and then exit the game until next weekend

 

And by the way, I would prefer to effectively spend time with children. You can open a can of beer and turn on the TV, or you can play a board game and make him solve problems and think.

[Is there an RPG "factor" when shooting zombies?]

7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

So you're saying there's no bug, and all the people complaining, and even video proof is all baloney?

Thanks for officially clarifying this, we were all waiting for your expert opinion!  

What video proof? Apparently I didn't notice

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

5 hours ago, quyxkh said:

 

Good Lord. Here's how to fix it: play survivalist, dead is dead, no trader.

 

No. Trader.

 

Your complaint is "once you've got some skill the game's easy and boring if you play it on easy and boring settings, and it forces you to play on easy and boring settings because that's easiest".

 

If the wall gets bloody and ugly after you run headlong into it enough times, I'm not sure the right response is to demand the wall be made self cleaning. Can I suggest opening the door, it's right there, and walking through?

 

Stop playing on easy settings. The game gets more interesting.

Played many worlds without a trader. Including with 25% loot and 50% experience with increased zombie speed and strength. Most of the time I play on very difficult settings

 

Didn't see any complaints. Saw highlighting obvious flaws that shouldn't force me to remove some of the content 

7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

You're a min-maxer : there's no cure for that.

For you, anyone who plays better than you is a min maxer? I just choose the right decisions and try to be better

9 hours ago, Diragor said:

You are not forced to do Trader missions all day. Just go out and get inside a POI that looks interesting to you. You don't need to Min/Max all Day by doing quests for the extra Rewards. Trader Quests are an Opportunity not a Duty to fullfill. It's a Sandbox Survival Game. SANDBOX means do whatever you like.

If I play a game where I can afford bad decisions, then this game is not interesting initially.

[Is there an RPG "factor" when shooting zombies?]

On 11/16/2022 at 2:06 AM, Jost Amman said:

I've always wondered if, when shooting zombies with a bow/gun, there is also a "Hit Chance" check like in traditional RPGs.

 

I ask this question because many times I've heard people complaining about shooting a zombie right in the head, also from afar, and missing it, even if they were sure they were spot on targeting the hit-box.

 

Some say it's just the wonky hit-boxes not working as they should.

Others say even if you hit the hit-box you still have the game check the hit against your "skill" in (e.g.) bows or the gun.

Others think it's a "lag" issue (but this also sometimes happens in SP, so...).

 

Can anyone confirm this from an official source or know the answer?

Thanks

 

@faatal @Kinyajuu @Roland @schwanz9000

People are always looking for excuses for their mistakes. In any shooter, people cry about bad hitboxes and bad game engines, supposedly because of this they cannot hit the target. But we know why this happens.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

28 minutes ago, A Nice Cup of Tea said:

 

You're not forced to play in the most efficient way possible. If doing the same POI again and again is boring then you are free to do other POIs instead for more variety even though that would be less efficient.

 

Thanks, I didn't know. You opened my eyes. Just kidding, of course not. The trader always gives the same POIs nearby, so one way or another you will be going around in circles

 

It is true that a high level POI is not enough for one trader, so at the beginning of the game you will have the illusion of variety, but very soon, if you do tasks intensively, you will be trapped by 2-3 T4-T5 POIs nearby. This can only be solved by some change in the algorithm for issuing quests, or the appearance of settings for this. Endgame is a grind anyway, but it could have been designed to be more varied than what we currently have. Either the trader should say "sorry man but you did all my work, go to another trader" or he should alternate what he gives. But we are given the opportunity to clear the same T4 POI nearby over and over again endlessly. This is silly. And sorry for those who worked on the generation of the world. In fact, no one needs their work. Because the game world is not 10k x 10k, it's a trader and a random t4 next door.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

8 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well there is no POI connected treasure hunt - very good to get a lot of food and money. Plus if trader is 2,5 Km away - why to waist time just... going there? That's why i always make base close to trader - have time to make quest, looting and upgrading base

This is what I'm talking about. At the moment, the game forces you to do this. The most efficient way to play is build your base next to a trader and grind the same high level POI 200m away. Again and again. The same POI. From day to day. No point in world generation and explore world

10 hours ago, Riamus said:

It isn't possible for a game to add every possible setting that every player might want.  Developers will add settings that they feel (right it wrong) are wanted by most players.  This is the reason for mods... If the game doesn't give you the exact setting or gameplay you want, you mod it so it does.  You say that there are ways to deal with the issues I mentioned, but there are also ready ways to deal with what you mentioned.  There are a very limited number of POI that quests are for and you generally aren't going to keep doing low tier quests, so knowing what you've already done isn't that difficult.  I don't keep a list and yet I know what I've done by just watching the name of the POI each time I take a quest.  Maybe in a different town that uses the same POI, I might think I've done it but haven't in that specific town, but I'm also not trying to keep track.  It just happens automatically as I play.  This is a case where a mod is the way to go.  It is extremely unlikely they would add such a setting in vanilla.

I understand that the developers are not obliged and will not add everything that each player asks for. You didn't say that, did you? You argued that this will not happen for another reason. You said it would spoil the gaming experience. Because high level POIs don't spawn enough. But 25% of the loot is just "spoil" as 10,000% of the loot. These settings exist and someone plays with them. In addition, there are many obvious ways to make this setting so that they do not end, but the player will not be forced to sit in one place

 

Maintaining a manual list of completed POIs is totally ridiculous. This is a PC game, not a board game. You often have the same POI in different places, similar POIs, and so on. In addition, their list is very large, will you really check the name + coordinates of the trader's quest variants with the manual list in your notebook? What happens when none of them work for you? After all, the trader always gives tasks nearby, so this moment comes quickly

 

In addition, there is always the temptation to have time to run once again to that same T4 200 meters from the base before the blood moon. If you play survival games with hard settings with low loot, frequent moon and strong zombies, then you will understand. If you're used to playing default settings in "I like to kill zombies🙃" mode then why are you arguing

9 hours ago, ltbrunt said:

At my job I am learning how to use Unreal Engine 5. My company is not a game company but is using Unreal Engine across all areas of the company. My mind is blown. I would happily pay 100 dollars for 7 days to die version ported to Unreal Engine 5. From what I have seen internally at work and demos online with the new 5.1 is like visual dopamine for the eyes. 

Just for the sake of optimization. The wretched graphics of 7 days is its highlight. I would never want this game to look different. Like all the same type of "beautiful" games

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

23 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Only 1 quest for a POI isn't going to work. There aren't enough POI with quests, especially at tier 5 for only doing one per POI.  You might get by at the lower tiers by running around the map, though that's a lot of running, but at least at tier 5, it won't work unless you want to do very little questing.

Not enough for what? Solutions of problems you described so lies on surface that I don’t even want to write all this for the tenth time

Besides if they have that (spoiler), if they assume that players can play however they want (make up any fancy restrictions in their head), then why can't they let us setting the game however we want at our own risk. Why can we choose 25% loot and 25% experience, super many zombies, we can even increase AI block damage, but why we cannot limit the number of available quests on the map? Exactly the same challenge. Objections that it will be boring or too hard apply exactly the same to the above settings. Why is it there then?

Spoiler

 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

Well... i have to star another controvesial topic because nothing happens here so...... - if trader will be more specialisted then.... it would force to just find every trader on map. So - a lot of time will be just wasted not traveling while traveling is pretty pointless now - in LBD times at least running make you character better

 

So that travel is not meaningless, the developers should add the ability to enable the mode "1 POI = 1 QUEST". I suggested this, but as always this idea was crap with words like if someone wants this, then he simply should not select those POIs that he has already completed (probably, you need to keep a list in a notebook) 🤡

 

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Ah, right.

 

Let me just correct the sentence above, you did not receive a ton of resentement, you received a ton of opposition. Resentment happened because of word choices (if I remember correctly).

 

And now for a proper reply to the original question:

 

 

 

"If" doesn't count. Do you know someone who enjoys weapon and armor crafting in A20?

 

Ok

"If" still counts. By the logic I'm often countered with here, you have to limit yourself to looting and trader rewards in order to enjoy crafting. Very weak mechanics does not mean useless (according to the logic of the defenders of any hole in the balance)

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

No, I don't understand

 

 

Once I said that bows and stealth are useless, in response I received a ton of resentment with the message "if we enjoy it, then it's not useless"

 

Two weeks later madmole wrote the same thing and got a standing ovation

😁

We discussed it with you in pm.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

11 hours ago, meganoth said:

make crafting useless

Useless? What if I told you that someone enjoys crafting? I hope you understand what this is referring to

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

6 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Almost endless is not endless and almost free is not free either.

You pick on words

9 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Guns also kill zombies while fences stun them. Do you see the difference?

You were the first who compare guns with a fence

10 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Maybe a day 7 horde with 8 zombies simultaneously. Try killing a day 70 horde with demolishers and 32 zombies simultaneously with a single dart trap. Good luck with that.

 

Day 70? What's the point of playing until day 70 if i have a auger on day 7. The game actually ends on day 20-30 as the limit of all possibilities is reached. Anyway, i will try when i get my laptop

13 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Oh suddenly there is free and more free ? And it doesn't matter how many mines or anything else you need. Your whole argument was based only on the fact that there is unlimited iron. The other resources are also unlimited and in addition you find ammo in loot.
 

There are numerous differences between the dart trap and a gun. For example, the dart trap can only shoot in one direction. Whereas with a gun you can aim freely. In addition, firearms have the advantage that they do more damage through skills in contrast to a dart trap. A iron dart always deals a entity damage of 45. For example, a Q5 Pipe Machinegun with 3 mods deals 51.6 damage + 40% more damage with level 4 of the Machine Gunner perk and 260% headshot damage with level 7 of Fortitude. If I use my Q5 M60 this damage increases to 78.4 per hit + all the perks.

 

"More free" is sarcasm because obviously the price is the time and effort it takes to get something. You say that ammo is free as well as darts, although it is obvious that it takes a lot more actions and resources to produce them. Even based on your words in the same paragraph where you put them on a par with darts. And good luck with only headshots in a 10 fps game

17 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Yes it takes a few more steps to make bullets but unlike iron darts you find the ammo in loot and you also get ammo for T1 and T2 quests as well. I also explained how to get brass with stone and iron. If you need more brass there are plenty of sources. There is no shortage of brass in A20.

 

You don't like electric traps? Then do not use them or mod the so weak that you are happy with it.

The production of ammo is still more resource-intensive and labor-intensive than darts

I do not use in some games, in some I limit it

18 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

So your argument is "it's broken and that's why I'm exploiting it". I have never bought an auger or a gun from a trader because of similar considerations. However, I accept that the developers have made it possible and that players use it. I have imposed this limitation on myself.
 

The current state for developers is A21. The whole balancing and progress will change simply because you can no longer easily get stronger weapons or an auger. 

Who knows how long it will even be before we can build dart traps or blade traps in A21.

Not this way. My argument is "I see an obvious hole in the game balance and I report it." After that game where I showed everyone how easy it is to get a auger and a concrete base on day 7, I played games without a trader. Of course, when I play, I try to play to the limit. Otherwise it's not interesting. But unfortunately, I often have to impose restrictions on myself due to the fact that the balance of the game is bad.

 

I don't see where to download A21? Or are we developers?

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

48 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

It does not matter how much it is damaged per zombie. The fact is that the electric fences don't last the whole horde and you have to repair them, so the statement that they work endlessly is simply wrong. In the same way you could argue that guns work endlessly because you can repair them during the horde and by the way a repair kit doesn't cost much either.

Not true. It is very important. If you need to repair it 1-2 times in hundreds of hits, then it's almost endless. And by the way, it's almost free.

The repair kit is really too cheap, but guns waste bullets, and bullets require shells. And for the shells you need brass, which cannot be dug out in the amount of several thousand per minute. Thus, the use of guns requires a conditionally non-infinite resource. Of course there is a trader exploit

52 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

To craft the iron darts you need to mine iron and clay and smelt them in the forge. A dart trap can hold 1500 iron darts, which require a total of 4500 iron and 1500 clay. For a base with e.g. 6 dart traps you need 27000 iron and 9000 clay per week.

Are you not funny yourself? Is 4k iron a lot? It's less than 1 minute in mine. And tell me why you need 6 dart traps at the base. One is enough and it will almost single-handedly destroy the horde in BM, i tested. Its overly efficient

55 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

By the way, according to your own reasoning, ammunition is also free. Lead, nitrate and coal can be mined and you can sell stone and iron for 1200 coins per stack to the trader. The coins can be melted for brass. The trader restock every 3 days. So per week I can make up to 14400 coins from one trader only with stacks of stone and iron. That gives me 2880 bullet casings per week.

Cool, but compare this paragraph and the previous one to see how much more free it is. To make a bullet, you need to go to one mine, then another, then a third, then work on a chemical table,, in a forge, on a workbench and so on. To make a dart you need to go to one mine and work in a forge. At the same time, the dart is stronger. Fair? Not

Yes, ammo is still cheap, but at least it requires brass. In addition, it require more operations than darts. At the same time, darts are still have more damage. That's why I say traps are too strong (too effective)

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

If you have an auger already in first week then you are either very lucky to find the schematic or you bought it from the trader. Both will no longer be possible in A21.

Yes, I bought it from a trader. Because trader and INT branch is broken and too strong. I've been telling you about this for over a year and I've only gotten dislikes. And now it's fixed. But who cares what will change who knows when, if we are discussing the game in its current state?

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

The electric fence does not work endlessly. It gets damaged every time a zombie walks through. After a while, it doesn't work at all and you have to fix it.

And I wouldn't call electric traps strong either. You have to constantly repair them and invest a lot of resources. Anyone who has ever had many dart traps in operation knows how much iron you have to invest. And anyone who has had blade traps in operation knows that they can be easily destroyed and must also be constantly repaired during the horde.
 

Lol, how much damage does he take for each zombie? And how difficult it is to repair it, given that there is no delay in the game to repair anything. Any repair is done instantly. In my experience it needs to be repaired 1-2 times per blood moon at very high stages

Darts deal incredibly high damage for virtually no cost. It's very funny to see the phrase "how much iron you have to invest", considering that iron is literally everywhere and by the end of the first week you have a drill and a miner 69 => you have endless free iron => darts is free

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:23 PM, meilodasreh said:

I wouldn't mind if they totally got rid of electric post wires and replace that kind of trap with like an electrified floor plate or so.

Feels weird to me that Zs slowly glide through the wire without breaking it immediately...always get that terminator prison scene vibe. Feels out of place for me. 

super agree, electric traps are too strong and look very raw. especially spoils the impression of the game endlessly working "electric fence"

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

34 minutes ago, POCKET951 said:

 Just because INT was super overpowered in Alpha 20 doesn't mean it should be   totally unplayable in A21. looking forward to A21 skill tree shake and bake

This was not discussed.  Don't jump from one extreme to another.  Balancing int does not mean making it unplayable.

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

2 hours ago, Javabean867 said:

it sounds like a mod situation, that way you can play the way you like to.  You'd probably like the undead legacy mod, because it makes frames incredibly expensive to use.  I've been watching JaWoodle's series on it, and its been interesting.  Not interesting enough for me to play though.

Otherwise you are suggesting the modification of a feature to suit the minority of people who find that feature annoying or immersion breaking.
 

I know about the UL mod, I love it, I consider it the best among all the mods I know. But there is no such mechanics. In UL, as in vanilla, blocks and doors are repaired instantly with one click of the mouse  And if a wall of your house collapses, you can still install a new one in a split second.

 

In early game with UL mod, there really is a problem with frames, but my thought is generally very loosely related to nerdpoling, or rather indirectly. The main speech is about the instant repair of doors and blocks and the instant installation of new blocks to replace those destroyed during the sieges of BM, etc.

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

10 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

 

You call it an exploit, however, it is a game mechanic.  But hey I am game, I would stop placing a block down to hop over a fence while trying to get away from a pack of zombie dogs if the  game would allow me to pull myself over the fence like I can do in real life, or climb a tree.  But since I can't do either, I have to use the tools available to me which includes dropping a frame block down to hop over that fence.  I also play permadeath on most of my playthroughs so dying to "not exploit the game to throw down a frame to hop a fence" really doesn't appeal to me for the reasons stated above.

 

Do I place hatches in doors in POIs as I am looting them?  No I don't do that.  Do I make bases where the zombies think they have a path to me but can't because of physics?  No I always give them a path to me.  Do I think the developers should remove the option of hatches in POIs to force players from using them?  No I don't.  Just because I don't use them, does not mean that everyone else should be under the same limitation.  I like the fact that the developers are working to finish this game to their vision, but leaving it open to different ways that we the players can play it (or mod it).

 

And we all play the game differently.  Some use CM to get stuff early on or use easier settings while others max out the difficulty of the game via the in-game options.  Others mod the game to get the tweaks they want to when they play.  Removing a game mechanic just to "encourage players to play harder" is just one way to remove options for others.  If you don't like using frame blocks, there is nothing in the game preventing you from imposing that limit to yourself.

Great post based on a false premise. I didn't suggest to remove any game mechanics just for "encourage players to play harder". I suggested to improve the existing one. Check my first post https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/28129-alpha-21-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=505171

 

The debate over the limits that players should impose on themselves is endless and pointless. I believe that all these add-ons that are in your head are crutches, not a feature of the game, and the less we need them, the better for the gameplay. Your opinion is the opposite. We won't be able to reach a consensus.

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

12 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

so the secret stash is disappearing in A21, another hefty blow to the intelligence tree.

I really hope Madmole has some good stuff cooking for the int tree rework  in A21 or else its just going  to be the flat out most worst most useless tree in the game. 
I understand that the skill tree balance is asymmetric.

but each tree needs to have appealing and interesting/impactful choices . I really hope we don't end up entirely ignoring int because it has become totally unimpactful and irrelevant to gameplay

By playing through intelligence, you can get a concrete base with crucible by the end of the first week even playing on hard difficulty with reduced loot. What other branch of skill tree allows you to achieve this? Given the difficulty of the first BMs, this is an obviously overly redundant progress that was not foreseen by the developers. Intelligence absolutely broken in current state with secret stash and quest trader rewards. 

 

In addition, only by playing through intelligence you are guaranteed to quickly get transport and a workbench. Which also makes the game easier. And it is in the intellect that there is an explosive with which you can protect yourself from any blood moon with the almost free to craft pipe bombs.

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

9 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Not a fan of this idea.  As someone who on many occasions thrown down a frame block or two to get away from a pack of zombie dogs, I don’t want to die because a counter has yet to reach zero.

How about avoiding deaths with skills rather than exploits? I am sure that I would have died more than once because of this, if this idea was realized. But such a decision would encourage players to play harder, rather than abuse poorly developed mechanics. Therefore, the game would be more interesting

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

They need to add a delay for placing blocks if there is an enemy nearby. Either always. The same must be done for repairing blocks and objects.

 

This solves the problem of exploit "nerdpoles" and instant restoration of doors and walls during a BM siege