theFlu

Can't be crafted.. cm mode is the way if you want. (type cm in console, and press u for item menu) EDIT: I have been corrected below, thanks!

To be honest, it's been a couple major versions since I last messed with those, to make a spawn for a friend to test out my Indy-style entrance ("only the penitent man shall pass") ... Back then it used to happily spawn me either in the air, or within terrain blocks, just based exactly on the altitude defined in the xml. The stuck-resolver would likely deal with it, but it's not a great experience.

As long as you don't place the cache (or other blocks) exactly on the point where people will spawn, it should be fine.

The trader locations (all of the POI locations) should be in some similar file (prefabs.xml, search for "trader"), so you could compare the existing points to the traders and choose a nearby one. Might take a bit of math, but sticking to ~1k accuracy each direction should get you close enough. Or you can find the trader coords and edit the spawn point (close) to that. Something like [+100, +100] so you don't collide with the trader compound... load in, check that you won't spawn in a tree or fall too far and log out. Also, technically you could even implement a RP start for your world if you like, by making, let's say a prison cell, and setting the spawn point inside of it - the spawn comes with a height coordinate, it should spawn you nicely right within a structure (or within a wall if you misplace the point .. 😛 )

@Roland I don't dislike your playstyle; at all. I've done plenty such playthrus and enjoyed them. One could argue the earlier alphas were by nature more of that chill exploratory style. But I get where the misconception might come from: on the forum I advocate for the mechanics of the game to be the best they can, which will come across as elitist. But I think we even share an end goal: good mechanics serve good storytelling. Whether thru immersion in realistic zombie spawns or at the bare minimum staying out of the way of those "player crafted" stories (my issue with the water changes). Not to mention by just not "annoying the player away from the game" like Witcher 2 did to me, twice... never finished it due to clunky. Here, if indeed the intended design is for players to start abandoning the tutorial at some point .. the implementation doesn't achieve that. If that's what TFP wants from the design, fine, I don't hate the idea - but it needs some forcing or at least encouragement to look like a proper mechanic. Atm it's like this VLDL -skit but without the force field: "The fact that I was 'behind' didn't matter." Yeh, it doesn't. If it did, I might consider it 👍 It's a good game, but enjoy it sparingly ...

You're taking me as aggressive; I haven't tried to be. I gave up doing emotional caveats since the current day PC-policing went nuts, got a lil jaded - and thus I am just trying to stick to my points; I'm trying to be short, not hostile. "A little off" is the mildest form of "wrong" I could muster. That's because you are setting up this false premise and acting like it is mine. Here is the real premise: I'm acting like it's yours, because it IS yours. Indeed, instead you advocate for not earning them in the easiest way in the game, the thing the game asks you to do first in every session. This is a self-imposed challenge, just as leaving 4 points untouched would be. I'm a mechanics player, I like minesweeper, I don't much enjoy CYOA-games - I like a good story, but stories are better told as movies, books, whatnot. Games, for me, are mechanical creations you learn to tinker with. The combination of good game and good story is often great, but with games, the mechanics are what matters to me. Leaving mechanics unused is poor utilization. The starter quest points are There. To assume I would leave them unutilized is.. silly to me. Join a PvP server and guess how many experienced people leave them alone; you'll be correct. For the "permanence" of the choice: The quest points are outside the normal level-up points in the sense that they don't slow down getting your next points, as they don't effect the XP required for the next point. Whatever measure you compare against, day, level, gamestage, trader state; you will always be 4 points short in the playthrough. Once you reach a soft cap for power (such as your main weapon at 5/5), the effect of the difference starts to diminish, but it will still be there until you've filled up your entire skill tree. If the missing points make you play slower, then you might even suffer a further handicap due to that. For the "what patches am I playing"; I'm just waiting for A22. I played a few A21 games early on, but I cba looting another 1000 books. For nerdpoling, it's a minecraft game, the feature exists, you're supposed to be able to "build upwards". If they disable nerdpoling by, say, not being able to place blocks with feet of the ground, I'll happily build two poles, or a pole and a ladder to reach the same goal - if I need the information. I don't really utilize NP to get end loots or any of that, it's not fun, nor even really that powerful - early on the loot in any box sucks, and leveling up is the goal => the Quest Loop = 42. The only thing I was going for a "ridiculous caricature" with, was the "dig some stone and throw it away" -playthru. That was just to point out that not everything you CAN do is MEANT TO BE DONE. The "abandon quest" button is there, but I can't honestly imagine you're MEANT to start using it for a single specific quest. That's just horrible design. May. For suitably small values of "may". As in, it doesn't happen in 9/10 starts, they land into the quest loop within the first day. Pointless when it doesn't happen, and when it does, it's just a mild detour to loot a couple kitchens for water. If you're entirely out of POIs, I doubt that's a spawn that TFP would be happy with. Still rather pointless. My narrative... Gaslighting much? I'm describing the "abandon quest" button like it is used in every other game it exists in. I can't come up with a game where an "abandon quest" button is intended to be used as a difficulty modifier.. can you? Please do if you can. I didn't say it's just an EA oopsie, I said it's an oopsie. And an EA "bug resolver". But if you have some evidence to show that TFP has designed the button FOR dropping the tutorial quest and the associated skill points, well, you can't show it of course, NDA - but do tell them that the design sucks. You're free to sugar-coat it as much as you like, of course. Yup, that was the subject for my original claim. The discussion went wild from a simple disagreement on the apparent lack of a design intent. Nope; you're free to call me a noob; that's also what I happen to think of myself. I haven't taken anything personally, I just felt there's something a little off about claiming that the starter quest is designed to be abandoned. What aggression? Well, then the rewards of the quest are OP, as they give an unfair advantage for veteran players who complete it. Which is why people do it even if they don't want to. Give a 10-stack of water and food bundle for newbies, and veterans might skip it, while the newbs would actually get something they might benefit from. Noobs will die just the same with +4 skill points, it's a rather pointless buff for them. Most of them will waste it on the rounding error that is Pain Tolerance anyway. I think that paragraph basically covers the rest of your post; if it's "designed for newbs only" then the implementation just sucks. Oh noes, I'm being called names on the interweps... Report! Ban! ...

I ... honest to god, I have no idea how you see the two different. <Insert meme: They're the same picture> 1) Do the quest, leave the 4 skill points untouched. 2) Cancel the quest, leave the 4 points unearned. 3) Just toggle off the quest from tracking and never craft plant fiber clothes, leaving the points stuck in the incomplete quest. All of these are simply the player choosing not to utilize 4 available skill points. That choice alone will practically never change a single action you take in the game. You clean the same POIs, you fight the same battles, you build the same base. Now, if you include the trader marker into the mix, then yeah, there's a small difference if it happens to combine with terrible spawn luck. I don't pretend to know what the intent for spawning is, some RWG iterations have spawned you straight at the trader, most seem to have you spawn within shouting distance of a city, mostly with a trader attached. Only by horrible luck (as in, "very rarely") have I found myself in the middle of nowhere such that I've had to travel a lot to find the first trader. Usually there's at least a road to follow, which will lead me to one within the first day. High ground and maybe some nerdpoling will give good enough of a grasp of the surroundings if completely lost, even with the RWG iterations that forgot to make the roads. But even the worst case costs you a couple days of wandering in the wilderness; it's a neat change of pace, but overall a rather pointless experience. Your first week just has less days. They intentionally allow the players to be "OP"? I guess we disagree on the meaning of "overpowered" as well then. For me, that means something "essentially broken". Simply "powerful" would be a version that isn't broken. The "button provided" seems to be intended as more of a "changed my mind, I want another quest instead" -function, rather than a difficulty tuning one. And for EA phase a "nvm this buggy mess that doesn't spawn, I'll just get on with my life" -function. It's there because removing it for a specific quest would be extra work - and there's no real reason to disable it. --- Hmm.. Want to. The claim I disagreed with was: "The 4-point headstart and the trader beacon are designed for new players." New players are just as able to disable the tutorial quest as the veterans are. If they want to. The implementation does in no way indicate that you're "not supposed to" take advantage of it after certain experience. Claiming that that specific feature is "for newbies only" seems to stem from the fact that it happens to be a playstyle you prefer, and you see yourself as an experienced player, so, other experienced players must agree? Just a case of honest hubris? Yes I've tried it, and I'm also capable of logical thinking. Thinking back to my starts, especially lately, a large majority have been basically at a city, with a trader, with zero effect from having the marker. Other than mild annoyance at a cluttered world view. And in this iteration spawning in an actual middle of nowhere is just annoying with thirst/dysentery being what it is without POIs. If a 2 minute quest at the start of a game is something one despises.. I can't help them. Complain, sure. Heh, some of those complaint posts take longer to write than the sum of the starter quests they've done thus far. But complaining is cathartic. Getting that 4 points at that cost is delicious. Pointless, but delicious.

All right, everything you can do, is designed gameplay? When's the last session you repeatedly mined for stone to toss it away a pebble at a time with the awesome stone toss mechanic, until you died of hunger? That's designed gameplay, and a great challenge, I'm sure. Or maybe it's not. Maybe I mean something a little different. I find it hard to believe that TFP would've implemented this system towards the design goal that "experienced players will not have those 4 skill points". You can do it, but the game doesn't disable it for you, now does it even give a verbal suggestion towards it. If it's designed as such, the Implementation does Not match the stated design. I would assume I did, as you're quoting me speaking of it. Why did I do it? Because it's a higher class of "reducing your skill point gain", it entirely covers your case of "reducing your skill points by 4", and is a little more difficult challenge, but completely feasible in the current implementation. It's essentially a claim that the challenge provided by -4 is rather negligible, thus I don't consider it "stupid". I just consider it "not intended gameplay". If TFP agreed, they surely would have disabled the starter quest for anything above normal difficulty? I take the points and the compass marker, with my few thousand hours in the game; not because I need them, but because they're essentially trivial anyway. Removing either doesn't change anything, at worst it makes the run to your first trader take a couple minutes longer due to lack of cardio and horrible spawn luck.

Something is this line of argument is a little off. Mainly "is designed" .. maybe it's designed as something, but for now the implementation fails to deliver a difference between new/experienced. Thus making that claim about its design is outside the scope of things we can experience. Can we play the game without ever spending a skill point? Yes. Not exactly a problem. But as long as the game doesn't actually remove the "newbie-buffs", we have to assume the skill system is designed and balanced With those points, not without them. Not that the balancing is even able to be strict enough to really care about 4 points, at best it'd become a question of how much cheese is ideal. Then again, the starter quest - especially the current streamlined version - takes about a minute, so the "jumping thru the hoops" -claim is rather mundane in itself. It costs you a couple pebbles and splinters, just spam thru it to get going.. consider it testing out the controls for your new session...

Ah, sorry - I misread it, I didn't know what you're describing is an actual thing. Nevermind me then.

numpad star

Reminds me of my dad.. He was working on a car and had drained the fuel into an open bucket. He was smoking at the time, and someone nagged at him that "isn't smoking around gasoline dangerous?". His nonchalant response was to toss his burning cigarette into the bucket of gas.. "gasoline doesn't burn, just the fumes." He's still with us for some reason

No wuvvies; it's mildly infuriating, but that's a me problem. Palworld looks like good fun, in all it's disgusting cuteness I'm thinking of getting either that or Enshrouded, but they both kinda seem one-and-done games for me. Nothing wrong with that, but I ain't got the budget for too many of such.

You are continually misreading me, in this thread you challenged me for using "faffing about" and "gimping yourself". Your definition of "Faffing about" was: Guess what, that's exactly the sense I was using it, in this thread. To faff about, to goof around, to have fun. The game has plenty of room for that outside of "optimal". You are reading it like I'm saying "anything else is wrong", while I'm not. I'm not. While I'm not, there's still optimal and suboptimal. They're still things, even if I'm not saying suboptimal is wrong. "Gimping" was used to specifically refer to being offered a choice: 1) "do thing X and earn Y" or 2) "do thing X and earn Y+Z". You factually are gimping yourself by not taking the +Z for doing the X. You can do it if you want, nothing wrong with that, but it's not exactly a meaningful decision. Yes, the word was chosen for its roughness, but the "choice" is a non-choice, and the roughness was added to emphasize that. The word is contextually fine as a description. "lol...what? People are playing no-quest playthroughs. I think that establishes that there very much is still a choice between building a base first or questing first. Think up a new one... " (multipage multiquote is hard man) And this is the level of argument it was levelled against.. a "lolwut". It was fitting, whether you like it or not. I'd love to see you build a base before looting a POI thou. I'll grant that. It's kinda easy since there's no NEED for the game to exist. Point me to where I've said it's necessary. I hate the current end result, but I'm a nobody on a forum, I'm offering opinions, suggestions, stupid jokes and whines. None of them make anything into a NEED. This is not a solution I have proposed, nor would I want it. Why are you offering it to me? I'd like there to be Some Things that are Better solved outside of questing - survival, mining, some such. It would give the game a natural flow where you choose to do different things based on current needs. Failing that, I'd like the spamlooting not to be Mandatory for survival and some form of slow gear progress. If the holy quest is still the best way, it doesn't bother me as much if it's not Mandatory. Parts of it are - water, gear progression. This is literally what I did though. That's how a big build starts, small increments, minimal necessary defensive positions, then redundancies and slowly combining things into a main build. Cool, not my claim though, and as you just keep misreading me .. I can't fix this. Or rather, I won't. It's a water thread. I'd deserve getting banned for the derails... Indeed, just like I meant it the first time, faffing about, goofing off, having fun. Have fun. See ya. EDIT: To add a reply to Because the point of the playthrough has been to "grow up with the build". Upgrade XP, horde loot etc, only minimally venturing out to "get stuff". It used to get me to decent tier tools and armor over time, for weapons some trading stone-to-guns was done in the later patches. I could start in a shack on day one. Now, for a mining day, you'll need something like, what, 9 water? Probably more, but let's go with that. That's three filters, 6k coin. Easily done by day 7, no worries there. Managed to get iron tools from those quests? Great, repairing those will cost you a glue each, and for a day of mining you're looking at half a dozen repairs, if not way more (seriously low durability). So, couple more filters. All right. Ofc you could just use the stone axe, you'll have a Qfiver at that time. Not exactly fast, but, sure, it'll dig three stacks of stone to sell per reset. Now, start digging with that and notice that... you're not going to get better with it. At all. All your improvements are going to come from the trader. If you'd like to cook your meat, you'll be looting for books for a couple weeks. I know the "trader progress" is there even if I just sell stacks of stone, he will likely have a cement mixer eventually, I will Eventually be able to buy steel tools. But honestly, I've already "prepared" for two weeks, what's two more? Oh right, the idea was to grow with the build. Spend two more weeks and you're pretty much Done. Sure there's still some decent lootables out there, but nothing necessary. There's no progress anymore. Now, if you feel like arguing against the edit, please keep in mind that I'm only describing my personal favourite playstyle. I'm not imposing that on anyone else, I'm not hissyfitting for my way being the Only True Way. I'm just explaining the issue, why the idea of the playstyle pretty much completely conflicts with the changes in A21, and why that might motivate me to argue against the water nonsense. Now, go have fun!

Ehh, is there really a difference between a high school and a daycare anyway?

Dude, stop. I made a one-liner lame joke about the "min-maxer spreadsheets" all pointing to questing. It was a silly mental image of a greenbordered excel sheet with an unending "Go Quest" -column. Now you're berating me for being a tryhard, even when I'm here to advocate FOR removing quest spam as the ONLY thing to do in the game. Give back natural water, unbind crafting from spamlooting, does that change the min max AT ALL? Do I care? I want those things so I can enjoy my chilliest playthroughs, that I've enjoyed the most about the game; slooowly progressing through building a massive fortress in the middle of nowhere. The chill playstyle I enjoy has been made IMPOSSIBLE by the changes introduced in A21. If you think that's the min-maxer in me, then just **** off.

Not really. You want cobblestone? Buying it from the trader is the most effective way. You want Concrete? Well, you either buy it from the trader, or go loot books to make your mixer. You want water to survive? It's in the toilets of those POIs. You want ammo? Infection quests are the bees knees for that. There's not a problem in the game that isn't best served by questing atm. Yes, you can faff about in the game, there's plenty of leeway outside anything resembling optimal; but the best answer to any need you can come up with is "Go Quest". Early game even more so, as you can't cover your drinking water without looting in the first days. The only thing that comes close is "I want to build a large base early game and the trader isn't selling me enough cobble." You'd optimally mine & dig, but even in that case, you'll need to have a decent amount of questing done for your filters etc, or a decent surplus of water from loot. And the tools for the mining will need to be from questing as well. I'm not even saying it's a bad thing (atm), it just is how it is. What I feel about it is irrelevant.

Heh, ye, the spreadsheet for the current iteration.. no matter how many rows you fill, the answer is "Go Quest".

You mean to say adding filters to the trader was a way for newbies to start floods? ... Just kidding And you're still just leaving the milk on the floor in both cases. Yes, socially it would matter. But we have no way to send TFP to his room, so we can only hope they're actually a grandpa and will figure out there's milk on the floor, either on their own or at least when told so. I'm telling him so. If he did it on purpose, well, sucks to be me standing in the puddle, at that point the best I can do is to step away from it. And maybe come back to spamloot a few POIs in A22 and see if my socks still get wet then. Yeh, some of the devs read the forum and likely do get ideas from here. But our speculations on "why they've done thing X" are just noise; if we're wrong, it's just a mental tripwire to miss the actual feedback, and even in the rare case we get it right, it's not really going to assist them in addressing anything as they will still have other goals to meet.

Because you specified "for starting players"; that implies "for others there's something different". I guess by "starting players" you meant "players on day 1-2" but not necessarily "new to the game". Having an item appear once every 20 playthroughs in loot, but being sold by the trader guaranteed on day 1.. yeah, it's a 2000 duke win once every 20 games, but it doesn't really make the thing "not trader-only" in practice. If the milk is on the floor, mopping it up is going to take the same amount of effort whether grandpa knocked a glass off the table, or the 6 year old stared you in the eyes laughing while pouring it out. Sure the granps might be easier to convince to mop it up, but we, players, forum users, and afaik mods, can't know if a result was intentional or not. All we know is there's milk on the floor. Guessing the reason "why they did it" is rather fruitless; if you guess wrong, you're going to be met with ridicule like "don't read between my lines". And you're going to be wrong about 99% of the time - at the very least there's always 'something else' that you didn't think of, behind which people will mentally hide. Instead, just point out the facts of a case and move on. Facts of a case: Oreo cookies are better than high dose statin therapy in lowering LDL-cholesterol in a lean-mass-hyper-responder. "Why would anyone want to do such an experiment? - Who cares, they did. And the results are in." You can start guessing my motives of making that statement, but ... I couldn't really describe them, there's plenty. Sure, if we could actually speak with them. We can't, and they don't design the game based on forum whining, or so I've heard. We just whine as a group activity. It's good fun, I guess..

Does that imply that more experienced players would have other means of obtaining a filter? If so, currently there's about 5%* chance per map to obtain one, so from that I'd say "maths isn't one of TFP's strong suits". Sure, "TFP + maths" hasn't always been great, but I don't think it's ever been That bad.. *Number is obviously pulled out of my rear, but it's probably actually lower. That's mostly semantics. If you wish it called "not supported" instead of "destroyed".. eh, point of view difference, the end result is the same. Gating all gear progress behind the "number of POIs you've looted" kinda has the obvious side effect of removing any progress if you're not looting POIs. Looting POIs is the one chosen way for A21. That will effectively remove all other playstyles and they're at least testing the complete removal of those other playstyles with A21. The water changes fit neatly in a subset of "looting POIs" -playstyle, I won't believe for a minute that's by accident. Sure, they might not be set in stone with the changes, but there also might be a gorilla standing right behind you.

That seems to have been a quick quickening, thanks!

If it's gone every login, it's a bug. Possibly to do with the chunk regeneration, or a corrupted region file or something (so it never gets saved). Do you have any errors in console?

It's a game. It's not going to become dangerous, so "annoying" is the worst it can do.