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Posts posted by Quantum Blue
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46 minutes ago, Riamus said:
I think it can carry greatly though. I've had a game in A20 where two of us had experience up to 300% for a quick start. The first horde night felt like the 7th with every kind of zombie coming after us. We had very low ammo and defenses... Not even concrete walls yet. We survived but our base was swiss cheese. We had to keep jumping down to get loot bags just to have some ammo. Certainly not what I would call easier.
It can - especially depending on difficulty settings. Although I do believe TFP does try to maintain a 'balance' at default settings. And I was only referring to XP settings. Did you modify any other settings? 'Typically' for a default game, Game Stage on 7th Horde night could be about 79. (30th Lvl + 49 days) * 1 difficulty.
That would imply you experienced 72nd character level horde on day 7.
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1 hour ago, Riamus said:
I think the point was that what you get for weapons and armor will not scale with your level unless you are also increasing loot. This isn't necessarily a problem if you are looting higher biomes or get good RNG but generally speaking, you will have looted less in the same number of levels because you have played less time and so anything based on loot or mining or anything like that will be lower and can affect difficulty even if it may not always.
Loot Stage IS separate from Game State. Especially in A20. And, while there is some correctness about having less time, there is also the opposite, a character with 200% is going to have more perks, more health, more stamina, etc. They won't need as much time as those without XP bonuses. Not to mention more bonuses for killing faster, or crafting transportation sooner, etc. I have tested this myself, and I am easily more prepared for horde nights with XP bonuses versus when I do not.
A21 changes this. XP bonuses won't help as much, but it should be obvious that extending time with day/night length options will probably make it 'vastly' easier.
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5 hours ago, meilodasreh said:
200% xp adds to difficulty, beacuse you level up fast, and so does your gamestage rise, which makes enemies tougher, whilst your equipment mostly won't keep up with that.
In short: boosting xp gain messes up balancing a good bit.
At least the very first horde night is especially tough then. Good luck!
Actually, that is not how the math works. If you check Game Stage on the wiki (https://7daystodie.fandom.com/wiki/Gamestage) it shows this:
([Player Level] + [Adjusted Days Alive]) * [Difficulty Factor] (1.2)
Note that the formula uses BOTH player level AND time elapsed. Doubling the XP amount does NOT affect Adjusted Days Alive. The 'game' will be 'faster' from a player perception, because the Game Stage IS increasing faster IRL. But, inside the game (inside the formula), the character is actually leveling faster compared to time. What this means is that if you double the amount of XP, the character will have twice as many levels at a certain time as compared to one who is at 100%. (Horde Nights for example.)
I know for a certainty (because I did some extensive testing on this, as well as separate tests on increasing the Day Length Time) that doubling XP makes the game easier.
Alpha-21 sort of changes how 'large' the effect is. Pre-Alpha 21, character level/Game Stage affected an awful lot of things that the character did, or access to. Like which weapons were available (ability perks), etc. That is no longer governed by character level/Game Stage, but by number of magazines read.
Number of magazines read is obviously going to have a lot of value. But, character leveling has lost that value.
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1 hour ago, wwiiogre said:
But I don't code or program so that is right out. I have been around playing the game since it used to start you in wasteland sometimes.
wwiiogre:
Are you changing your GAME (not WORLD) name? There are usually numerous starting points generated (see Further info below), but if you use the same name it will use the same starting location.
I just tested myself and the same name starts in the same place, and different names start in different places. For the same world seed.
Further info here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/4/3196991412355615810/
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2 hours ago, Laz Man said:
Have you played an RWG map yet in a
A20? If a city has a downtown tile area, it will almost always have a skyscraper or 2 now.
I'm on my 4th A20 run right now. And I am using 12k maps. (15 min to generate). While I might not 'play to the edge' on every map, when I decide to start over I do do (rofl) a fly around the cities to see what's there. I am 2 game weeks into my current one and decided to check before I wrote that post. No skyscrapers. (btw; there are a couple 4 story buildings - but nothing taller than that. And at least 6 'cities' with downtown areas... But I still love the 'districts'!)
See? I wasn't kidding about my RNG karma.
(btw - I know enough about RWG generation and know HTML/XML, and could probably spend an hour or two (or more...) figuring out if skyscrapers were indeed being included, but was hoping someone like you (!) might have some 'known' feedback before I did that.
Thank you!
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18 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
Sorry, but it's not clear for me... how many reloads did you do for the test?
1 reload for 150 data points. (25 plantings of 6 plant types.) Each time for 0, 1, 2, and 3 perks.
Because we are basically talking about coin flipping (50% chance for 1 extra crop) you should perform at least 20 'flips' to see if there might be a bias. (There's a much more complicated way of determining fair coin flips, but it is not necessary for this test.). I did 150 'coin flips'.
Notice that the 'coin flipping' doesn't even seem to apply to 0 and 1 perks. The results were always factors of 50.
(And I strongly suspect that 3 perks is base '150' plus a random amount that seems to mirror the 2 perks set very closely.)
And, as Xeen said, it's more than enough for a person from TFP to take a look (if they want to) and see if something looks weird.
And, even if they decide not to change anything, at least I KNOW myself what I will do with regards to farming and perks. (And it looks like it might even be helping others. Which is what I really posted it for.)
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29 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
I appreciate the effort, really... but you can't draw conclusions based on ONE anecdotal result. It's simply not how "statistics" work.
As you said yourself, there could be too much RNG involved into such a small number of samples.
That's also true for what that player said... unless you plant A LOT of crops at once, you may be put down by RNG on your first try and think farming is useless.
1. 150 data points per set is not 'anecdotal'.
2. I have quite a bit of experience with 7D2D, and farming, and the results seem to verify what I have been 'guesstimating'. (That IS 'anecdotal'.)
3. While that data set is not large, it is enough to draw good averages when you only need to evaluate a 50% chance of an extra crop. It could be different if the entire range per harvest were randomized. (It is not, there are minimums.)
4. I actually have a background in combinations, permutations, and statistical analysis.
5. I have the game save from that point, and I could do more data sets, but 150 per set is adequate.
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As TFP has grown, and we seem to have heard some good news on POI's (better performance on some blocks, new poi developers, etc.) is there any chance we could see a return of some building/poi's that are taller than 3 stories? (Even if we had to limit to 1 or 2 per town/city? Any chance it could be a configuration button/slider?) (I really miss Dishong...)
And although I may have been absent for a while, I still feel this is the best game I have ever played. (And it's still in Alpha!!!)
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Farming and Returns with various Perk Points (Latest Public Alpha 20.6)
I thought I would do some testing and (actually) see what effect Farming Perk Points has on farming yields. I know what the description(s) say, and I can easily test with Excel, but that would not necessarily reflect the game.
For testing, I planted 25 seeds each of Potatoes, Corn, Blueberries, Yucca, and Coffee. I then saved after all plants grew. (So I could reload specific game point after each farming test.) Applied appropriate number of perks and harvested.
PPs = Perk Points used
Seeds = # of Seeds Returned (from 25 plantings)
Crop = # of Crops Returned
Cnvrt = # of crops needed to convert to seeds to be able to plant 25 more of the same plant.
Remain = # of crops remaining (to do with whatever you want).
PPs Crop Seeds Crop Cnvrt Remain
0 Potatoes 19 50 30 20
0 Corn 11 50 70 -20
0 Blueberries 10 50 75 -25
0 Yucca 12 50 65 -15
0 Coffee 10 50 75 -25
Averages 12.4 50 63 -13
PPs Crop Seeds Crop Cnvrt Remain
1 Potatoes 17 100 40 60
1 Corn 15 100 50 50
1 Blueberries 17 100 40 60
1 Yucca 8 100 85 15
1 Coffee 14 100 55 45
Averages 14.2 100 54 46
PPs Crop Seeds Crop Cnvrt Remain
2 Potatoes 9 111 80 31
2 Corn 6 114 95 19
2 Blueberries 10 111 75 36
2 Yucca 14 116 55 61
2 Coffee 19 113 30 83
Averages 11.6 113 67 46
PPs Crop Seeds Crop Cnvrt Remain
3 Potatoes 16 168 45 123
3 Corn 13 157 60 97
3 Blueberries 12 160 65 95
3 Yucca 12 162 65 97
3 Coffee 11 158 70 88
Averages 12.8 161 61 100Conclusions:
Farming is really not productive unless you invest at least 1 perk point. (You could get really lucky - as I did with potatoes, but...)
1 and 3 Perk Points seem to justify their use.
2 Perk Points seems weird. Even assuming my bad karma with RNG in games (I keep spreadsheets on almost all games, sometimes even tracking dice rolls. I really do have bad RNG karma.) the numbers just don't fit with the other perks. I almost suspect a bug/error in the code or the HTML files. (I haven't looked yet.)
1. I understand 25 plantings might not be representative of a early game, but I wanted a big enough data set to be able to draw conclusions. (Having said that, I can usually be farming productive with about 50 plantings (total) around day 30, if I keep reinvesting harvest back into seeds, with 1 perk point) by day 30. (on a 'standard game')
2. This is NOT meant as a commentary on TFP's farming process. (As a 15,000+ hour player, I can get used to certain alpha's, and feel 'pinched' when a new one rolls out, but have learned that after playing a new version for a while, I am usually very ok with the choices TFP makes. And, that I can adapt.)
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4 hours ago, Neminsis said:
... unused perks like Charismatic Nature, Well Insulated, Pack Mule, Physician, The Huntsman, Lucky Looter and Demolitions Expert...
2 hours ago, Jost Amman said:You're making a lot of assumptions... in my current SP/120 mins-day/Warrior game I'm using at least 2 of those skills and I find them pretty useful.
From my perspective, the end-game can also be any of the following:
- Restore a small town to its former glory (kind of like "House Flipper")
Jost - where the heck did you get that town flipper idea? 😀 (He knows it's something I like to do in some run throughs.)
I, too, might also use Well Insulated, or Pack Mule, or Demolitions Expert. And I might not. A lot kind of depends on RNG early game. And I like to experiment. (Although I rarely go above 60 min cycles).
I also didn't feel Neminsis was speaking in a definitive tone. I read it more like 'for example'. (although he stated things like "most common build" he did preface it with 'probably'.) I read it as Neminsis was trying to clarify Perk expectations. (or End Game expectations.)
I kind of do the same thing when persons speak out about realism and immersion. It almost always seems to be about TFP's ('bad') decisions and/or 'non-sensical' game limitations, and yet doesn't seem to be that hard to come up with imaginative ways to address almost anything. (and maybe because computers and game code is becoming more and more 'realistic', peoples expectations about realism are outpacing hardware and software development.)
I suspect all three of us play in various similar ways and know the game is going to be whatever Fun Pimp Decisions are, and how we can best enjoy those decisions ourselves.
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8 hours ago, beHypE said:
Is anyone finding any schematics for vehicles or already made parts ?
(In my previous run-through in which I seem to have a later stage than Start69) I very much agree with Star69 about bicycle, mb, and mc schematic frequency. I don't remember mini-bike schematics but I have seen a couple couple 4x4 chassis schematics as well. (in loot and once at a trader?) I hadn't used them as I had a 4x4 before finding. I haven't seen any non-bike schematics yet in this run through - 1st A20.1B5), but I am only day 30, lvl 38, lootstage 50ish. (but I will keep an 'eye' open.)
I am also seem to be experiencing a slight uptick in beakers and acid. I know they were slightly increased - but with RNG... I 'usually' might have 3 acids and no beakers by day 30, but I got a beaker about a week ago, and currently have 6 acids. It doesn't seem like that is game breaking. And I just haven't had/need or time to build a chemistry station in this run-through yet.
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1 hour ago, The Gronk said:
I think the last time I cracked a hash you were probably just starting your first day in security, I hope so, it's probably quite a bit longer though... I'm very old.
I love it, the speed of a primitive language without most of the tedious memory management.
I am currently quasi-semi-retired. But, I may be getting back in. My 'IT' background goes back to 60's. Dad and I were building plastic adding machines/calculators even before the Altair 8800. (I did a digi-comp before going to school). Dad (electronics tech plus) even brought home damaged 'mainframe' 'modules' that we would make good ones out of (along with some 'hard build' things like digital display frames, etc. I laugh when some try to use machine language as a 'bar'. (or even a TI-59) Me: "You mean you didn't have to use 10 mechanical switches for every byte of code and hit a switch to store, and do that a hundred times? For every program?" (cuz you would lose EVERYTHING by power or even hitting a 'bad' (not power!) switch... (and NO way to even SAVE programs. You know - like a tape or cards or anything) 😁
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24 minutes ago, The Gronk said:
You can program damn near anything you want in shader code, that wasn't my point.
Have you ever tried hash-cracking or crypto-mining _while_ rendering a high-def scene? It's the short road to a kernel panic or BSOD.
As I said I was just hopefully clarifying by saying it's not just about running 32 bit code - it is extremely useful for 'intense' 'code'. (btw - I added a '32 bit' clarification since this last posting as well.)
I have. Although mostly for testing purposes. Granted I might have to turn down my ultra settings for 7D2D, but I still have unused GPU bandwidth (15-50%) quite a bit. Although I could do rainbow tables with Terraria and quite a few others. (Although not Minecraft set to 64 chunks.
)
I tend to build very expensive gaming rigs. (9 fans and liquid cooling. With appropriate monitoring apps, of course.) Current rig within top 1.5% 3D Mark territory.
BTW1: My last 3 rigs have been built specifically with 7D2D in mind. (Not the only thing, but a high priority.)
BTW2: I am NOT trying to 'undercut' the 'kernel panic or BSOD' statement. Heck, I would bet you could literally fry some (a lot?) systems by trying that. (I probably could as well...)
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5 hours ago, The Gronk said:
They plan to run the pathfinding and physics on the GPU? What are they using to render the graphics? The CPU?
(I see you updated your post. Just hopefully adding a little more clarity. btw - 'compute shader' - not necessarily the same as video/graphic/image shaders)
Actually you can do a lot on GPU's. They are super sweet for 'hash cracking' and 'rainbow tables'. I had/have been in IT Security for 10 years and have personally run intense algorithmic code and various security applications on single and dual nvidia cards while playing games - including 7D2D. They are also quickly becoming a hot bed for hiding malware now as well. (Copying what happened to mac keyboards a few years back. But even that was preceded by CD-ROM EPROM's.)
Some examples:
https://developer.nvidia.com/how-to-cuda-c-cpp
https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/default/files/akamai/gameworks/CN/computing_cgdc_en.pdf
Some Cuda 64 bit functions:
https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-math-api/group__CUDA__MATH__INTRINSIC__INT.html
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I just wanted to say I am loving the new city layouts. (and I am aware that there still needs to be tweaks...)
I really love/hate walls and fences. But it feels very real to me. I actually used to 'forage' around a downtown/industrial area in my younger days. (Not breaking in or 'stealing', rummaging through trash bins for a couple warehouses that used to throw damaged toys away. Like race car (Aurora, Tyco) and train sets, etc.) Some are very maze like, and some reward you for only having a bike or mini-bike or motorcycle! (Although I have hit a 'wall channel' where even the motorcycle wouldn't fit.) You are not going to get a car through some places. So now I have another gaming decision to make, car for storage/speed, or mini-bike/mc to get through more places faster.
Heck, even the bouncing on/over curbs adds to my immersion. Do I want bumps, or do I play little mini-driving games avoiding things?
Major thumbs up TFP. Keep up the great work.
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Thank you for starting this thread, Sjustus548. Nice topic.
I am kind of like Tohskrad (not very creative) and Laz Man (efficiency). It's usually a 7x15 elevated box near a traders and some open farmland. I can build very quickly and it's as small as possible so I can do almost anything without moving very much (and using QuickStack mod to dump into all containers at once - when I am not doing a bug test run) and yet large enough to have a gyrocopter pad on top. I have a zombie 'perch' and a carport right next to it. I usually use until I 'clear' a city, and then move to another city. Which I haven't done yet in 9 A20 run throughs cuz the dang cities are so awesome now. (yep, they need work, but they are still awesome.) I don't use POI's cuz I kind of have an OCD thing about fixing things. When I say clear - I don't just mean get rid of z's, I mean remove all rubbish and fix up broken walls and floors, etc. I do that as my avatar is hoping to flip things for other survivors, and I do it for myself to learn more about the POI's and how they are built. (and that includes using the POI editor as well.) That's most of the time. Every so often (~10th run through) I try doing the nomad style and use poi's - but never the same one more than once.
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@Gazz (?) I believe you might have been a key person for data (charts, spreadsheets, etc.) I also believe that TFP has been collecting telemetry data. Is there any chance you could share with us some general numbers (like common non-default settings, etc.) and/or things TFP has learned or been 'surprised' about since you have started using it?
@Roland (or any moderator?) Is this board app capable of polls? I haven't seen any listed. If it could, but there aren't enough resources I would be glad to help any way I could. (I already have some questions that we could start with.)
I also understand that the forums might not be representative of the general public, but it might still be some 'fun' and or informative.
Thank you
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3 hours ago, LewZephyr said:
Anyone else getting these Ghost Blocks.
I never had in 8 runs in A20B238. (Or I didn't see them when they happened.) I had my first a few hours ago in A20.1 EXP. (a few mods and not default settings) It only lasted about a second. I did not recognized the area that popped in. It was in a industrial district. I could not get it to come back. Am hoping it will happen again so I can do more testing.
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24 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:
Quick question:
Is the random vehicle teleporting bug fixed with 20.1?
I have searched the 20.1 change log for "vehicle" and "teleport" but could not find anything related unfortunately.
Thank you for the attempted search. I thought faatal had said something related recently so I selected his name (you seem to visit somewhat frequently, and I thought I would share with you another way that might help. It's an easy way to scan some recent topics by TFP persons.) and did find this: (select the arrow in top right corner).
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19 minutes ago, meganoth said:
So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.
Nano-robotics? ...
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3 hours ago, faatal said:
We are a company of many people with a variety of ideas on how things should work. Over the years you also get new people coming onboard with new ideas. Opinions also change over time, so what I thought 4 years ago when I started, may be different now.
AI uses rounded block health in their pathing calculations, not SI. It is tower defense and we want them to be able to reach you, but since we can't do massive piles of zombies, smarted ones will do. My zombies have xray/heat/magic vision that lets them see weak spots in blocks and their semi functioning brains lets them decide to go there. They also have a dim recollection that doors allow them to get places, so they favor them. My lore for now until I change my mind or the company decides to have some official lore.
That is what I was trying to convey. Just phrased differently.
From my 2nd previous post to this one:
"How would you know how it's being refined by their developers and new staff as meetings and new or old ideas are discussed? "
From my previous post to this one:
"They have always said that Tower Defense was a part of the game. That means getting to the player. And that can be done in a number of programmatic ways which may or may not include SI."
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5 hours ago, Morloc said:
TFP tout their progress on the game with release and patch notes.
They highlight and summarize new features, changes and fixes.
Yes they do. But I still don't understand how you believe/knew they NEVER intended to deliberately use SI as part of their pathing 'feature'.
And I haven't been able to find anything like that in the A19 or A20 Dev Diary or EXP forums.
They have always said that Tower Defense was a part of the game. That means getting to the player. And that can be done in a number of programmatic ways which may or may not include SI.💀
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10 hours ago, Morloc said:
Zombies that understand structural integrity and complex pathing were never introduced as a deliberate feature. They're here because something was needed to provide a challenge to player bases/safehouses/etc. given other limitations of the game engine.
I don't understand how you know what expectations TFP has had with their zombies. How would you know how it's being refined by their developers and new staff as meetings and new or old ideas are discussed? It's entirely possible that TFP's expectations for Z's were higher but did not have time/staff/or resources to implement. (and even if a singular person mentioned that it was done as you say, that does not negate any other reasons or previous ideas as well.)
Although a couple other posters posted 'reasonable' ideas for zombies attacking things instead of the person (as well as other behaviors) I would like to add to as well.
Everybody also keeps talking about 7D2D z's and viruses. It doesn't just have to be about viruses. I had stated an example earlier, but I resorted to using hyperbole as a means to induce imaginary thinking, and it didn't work as intended. I would like to present my own current imagination/realism reasoning of TFP's z's.------------ A Radiated Virused Nano-Robotic 7D2D Story -----------
Nano-robotics IS an existing SCIENCE. In 7D2D, it just so happens there's a government lab in a bunker somewhere in Arizona developing the technology. About 5-10 years in the future they have the nano-robots capable of strengthening bones, skin, fingernails, etc. But, it's not capable of rebuilding or healing. (Well, normally...) They have have a limited hive-mind intelligence.
Then a limited nuclear war breaks out. {any reason.) And it has affected several research sites, virus research labs, nano-robotics labs, etc. And some moron scientist at one of the nano-robotics lab believes he can manipulate the nano-robots to heal (wounds and/or radiation). So they arranged for some radiated/virus-infected persons (or bodies) to be brought to the lab.
Well, unlike Reese's Peanut Butter cups, the mix of virus/radiation/nano-robots has created some very bad things. (Hereafter referred to as rvnr's.) And, while there is some consistency, there are also differences as well. The rvnr's have 'decided' they want to multiply (survival...) They don't care how or whom or what: animals, people, alive, dead, whatever. But, they still haven't mastered rebuilding the host body back to what it was before they infected it. (Well, mostly...) But, they do provide added strength, stronger bones, stronger finger/toe nails, etc., AND some limited intelligence. But, because it's not just tissue and muscles being FULLY driven by a organic brain, they don't move like 'living' things normally do. Most have jerky moving (and moving speed is NOT a constant), head bobbing, while some are capable of jumping further distances, etc. It also seems that sunlight has some kind of effect, as most rvnr's seem slower in light. It's been postulated the rvnr's are keeping energy expenditures lower, and using the light to help 'recharge their batteries'. (That's a super simplified explanation. They actually form 'conduits' from rvnr's on the host surface to feed the energy to the internal rvnr's.)
Some even made it to a police station, where some living police had holed up. And these LEO's (Law Enforcement Officer's) had access to some military equipment. Including various kinds of gas grenades. Well, as you can imagine, there was a fight in close quarters where some gas was used, and some LEO's died. And got 'infected' with the rvnr's. The rvnr's 'thought' the gas was actually part of the host 'system' and so they modified the body to be able to keep producing it, and to hurl it when necessary.
It is also believed that there are aquatic form's of the rnvr's - but evidence has been extremely limited thus far.
And, (obviously!) some nano-robot z's have discovered how to use the radiation to re-heal some forms! But, it may only work at a certain radiation percentage, radiation/virus percentage combo, damaged/dead body amount, etc.
And, because of the hive-mind some info/intelligence is being shared. It's not known the extent of the info, or which z's, but some seem capable of limited 'learning'. It is also not known how the info is shared (touch? blue-tooth? ...), but currently it seems to be very localized. (Dang good thing - or everything would be toast!)
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Btw - one probably should not assume avatar's are 'normal' people either. They could have conditions that are bad: (insomnia, virus, disease, etc.) or good: like having some other kind of rvnr's that are helping 'build' the person.
And, just because something is a certain way now, this is still ALPHA, and very subject to change.
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1 hour ago, Roland said:
Alpha 20.0 will not show up in the beta opt-in list until Alpha 20.1 leaves experimental and goes stable.
Thanks for clarification (Roland and BFT2020)
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Alpha 21 Dev Diary
in News & Announcements
Posted
That would make sense, especially if the player is all but ignoring crafting. Alpha 16 I first did 3 runs to level 30 at defaults (default is better for bug reporting), 3 Bonus XP test runs, and 3 runs at extended day lengths. (and then a few more at various settings.) I have done the same thing again with Alpha 20. ALL bonus XP runs (and extended game day runs) were easier. I had forges going much sooner, and not even crafting related - I had Parkour level 2 way sooner. Not to mention much higher Hidden Strike (ALL weapons). I KNOW I chewed through wandering hordes a LOT faster when I had bonus XP. And, you're right, I wasn't looting as much. I didn't need to. (A21 isn't going to be the same, though...)