Roland
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Posts posted by Roland
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There is a terrain shaping tool in the creative menu if you have the dev tools button switched on. It looks like a hot pink shovel. You could try shaping your banked turn out of terrain blocks using the shaping tool. I haven't played with it much but it might work.
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10 hours ago, Matt115 said:
Maybe i sounded too... hard but it's caused by my bad experiences about shoes and such shoes espectialy.
Well, you'll only be wearing them digitally and there is no "stubbed toe" debuff so I think you'll be safe both physically and digitally while wearing the in-game flip flops and this is from someone who tore a toenail off while riding a bike while wearing flipflops. I'll never do THAT again but I feel pretty safe playing a game about wearing flip flops.
Of course, I never tried wearing them while walking up the nearby mountain to check the pole that tells the weather either....
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6 hours ago, irongamer said:
Over the years there have been many action RPGs that do set item bonuses in "increments." Some sets have bonuses at 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 pieces depending on the game. The system has pros and cons of course but "incremented" set bonus have been around for a long time in the action rpg genre.
- Diablo 2-3- Sacred 2
- Titan Quest- Torchlight 2
- Grim Dawn- Last Epoch
Other rpg games like World of Warcraft have also used incremented set bonuses.
Yeah, I was wrong.
A truer statement to my point would be that all games have a threshold at which a full set bonus triggers and until you hit and remain at or above that threshold you only get a partial bonus or no bonus at all depending on the design. Wanting to dip below the threshold but still keep the bonus is unrealistic of a player. I suppose TFP could grant the set bonus if you have at least 4 of the 5 pieces just to allow for different footwear but I doubt they will do this. I think it will follow suit with the existing book. @Matt115's request to allow the set bonus without the flipflops isn't that crazy of a request after all as such a thing is an existing design after all.
But whatever the threshold turns out to be I don't believe it is a fair criticism to say that the devs are forcing a player to wear something the player doesn't want to wear but "must" wear for whatever bonus it provides. They shouldn't get the bonus if they don't meet the requirements.
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Good to know. Thanks all!
7 Days is unlikely to do an incremental set bonus. The devs will follow the same model they use for the book sets. Each piece will grant a specific bonus and if you wear the entire set you will get a set bonus.
It’s interesting to learn about different designs, though.
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37 minutes ago, Old Crow said:
What you neglected to mention or show, is that Runemaster (one of your examples) is an 8 piece set, but only requires 3 pieces to be worn in order to achieve the full set bonus.
I see what you mean. Sorry, the wiki part that I read didn't give me all the info and I didn't know enough about the game to search for more. That was my bad for not fully researching it.
So it appears that each piece has a bonus that it grants and in addition, there is a set bonus once you have at least 3 pieces. I concede that there is at least one game that does not require you to get all the pieces of an armor collection for the set bonus. But...I will point out that there still is a threshold and if you are a piece short of that threshold then you don't get the full bonus. In 7 Days to Die that threshold is going to be all the pieces.
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3 hours ago, Old Crow said:
Torchlight 2 will give the full (yes, FULL) set bonus for not wearing the full set.
Cool. I have that game but haven’t played it in years and never realized that. So there’s one.
After A22 releases there will still be just one.
EDIT: So I was curious and looked up the Torchlight wiki and here's the lowdown. You get an armor set bonus by wearing at least two pieces of the collection and it doesn't matter which two pieces you wear. BUT...it isn't really the full bonus because each additional piece worn adds another benefit to the set bonus. This means that if you are wearing all 9 pieces of the Sentinal collection (for example) your set bonus is a lot more...full and robust and I don't think any player would be happy to just stop at 2 pieces satisfied that the full set bonus was theirs.
I was willing to be proven wrong and still am but when it comes down to it, even in Torchlight 2 you don't get all the benefits of the actual full set by only wearing some of the pieces. Not only that but you get no set bonus at all if you drop below the (admittedly simple) threshold of 2 pieces.
So I must amend that after A22 releases there will still be zero games that allow players all the benefits of the full set if they are wearing fewer pieces than all of them. I don't deny that there will be partial bonuses.
Spoiler
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It was all home-school for K-8. You can tell because all the houses have home-school projects in them like "Making Mazes Out of Furniture" and "Barb Wire Interior Designing" and "Crafting Secret Spaces Behind Your Walls" instead of things like math, literature, and science...
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On 2/23/2024 at 10:49 PM, NukemDed said:
sorry again - mostly because i am feeling stroppy
set -1 in diablo still gave partial SET bonuses
semantics i know, but i wasted 3 years at university and the only thing that i learnt that was worthwhile was 'higher education' is another term for arguing semantics
the rest of the world was getting on and doing it
whazzat? sounds tasty
That's like saying that not wearing any of the pieces gives a "zero set bonus" so even if you wear nothing you're still getting a set bonus. Your semantics are fine but you think that if you put "set" all in caps it changes the meaning. I can do that too: PARTIAL set bonus.
What Matt wants is to get the FULL set bonus for wearing everything but the flipflop because otherwise he will feel forced into wearing the flipflops. Go back and look at the two lists of bonuses you posted for Diablo. Does Diablo let someone get all the bonuses from the second list if they aren't wearing everything from the set? If so, you've got me and I'll retract my statement. If not, then you're just agreeing 100% with me while capitalizing the word set.
If it helps, I will amend my statement to emphasize that what I meant was that no game in existence gives a full set bonus for only wearing a partial set. Some games will give a partial bonus (including 7 Days to Die A22) for wearing a partial set
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4 minutes ago, WarMongerian said:
So I just did a health intervention, and forced myself to actually climb into bed for 8 hours, for the first time since I got the game, so if I can do that on a regular basis, many of my issues my resolve themselves.
Yeah, don't live real life like game life. Sleeping is an implemented feature of real life...
5 minutes ago, WarMongerian said:Going forward with my plans, can anyone point me in the right direction to learn about the books in-game? What I am specifically looking for is a way to plan a weekly play session, where we (my playing group) can run a game and pick one person to be specialized in one critical area.
If you read the perk descriptions they usually will mention which magazine is paired with it. You can also read magazine and book descriptions in the skills UI screen. Other than that the wiki might be up to date on all current books so you could check there. In my cooperative games we have found the easiest is to bring all books and magazines to a common chest at the base so that the right person can read everything that pertains to what they are specializing in.
10 minutes ago, WarMongerian said:The goal of these weekly threads will to be to figure out what is needed for running such things. Where should I start posting a weekly thread at, and what would people want to see, so as to make first timers be encouraged to want to either play in one of my games, or even run some such thing on their own?
Just here in general discussions would be fine. Good luck.
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I think we just have completely different playstyles and goals in the game to be able to come to any resolution on any topic. Everything I enjoy about playing the game you view as faffing around, pointlessly annoying choices, and poor suboptimal choices. We both understand the playstyle of the other but fundamentally dislike it. That's fine. We just need to simply agree to disagree.
After my last post I started a new game on a new world and canceled the tutorial. I spawned next to a remnant house. I cleared it and then followed the pathway up a mountain to where a Ranger Overlook station stood. I cleared that and then standing on top of it I looked around and saw a flat area to the south that likely held a city. I headed in that direction and after about a km I did indeed see the city spread out before me. It took me the rest of the day to find the trader and I built a small tower across the street from it to spend the night. I also earned my first skillpoint as I finished upgrading the building blocks to wood blocks. That first day of gameplay created a great story in my mind as I played which is what I value. The fact that I was probably 4 skillpoints and a fetch quest behind where I would have been had I done the tutorial and gone straight to the trader with plenty of time to do a fetch quest didn't matter to me. In the grand scheme of things in a single player game it doesn't matter to me if I "win" by day 50 or by day 60. There is just no reason to try and play the mechanics of the game so optimally unless it is for its own sake of doing so as someone's point of playing-- which is what you shared is your preferred playstyle. This is why we hardly ever agree, I suppose. Which is just fine. Its great that the game can handle such opposite playstyles.
Good talk with neither mind changed.
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1 hour ago, theFlu said:
I ... honest to god, I have no idea how you see the two different. <Insert meme: They're the same picture>
1) Do the quest, leave the 4 skill points untouched.
2) Cancel the quest, leave the 4 points unearned.
That's because you are setting up this false premise and acting like it is mine. Here is the real premise:
1) Do the quest, get 4 skill points as a reward and spend them.
2) Don't do the quest, get 4 skill points from playing normally and spend them.
That's it. I never advocated not spending skill points. I never claimed skill points were forever lost by canceling the quest because that is a false premise. They aren't lost. You are simply earning them through different means and absolutely I do want people to spend their points. Never did I ever advocate for just leaving any skill points untouched. That was all you bringing such an idea into the conversation and then taking it to the nth degree by saying never use any skillpoints at all.
Saying that canceling the quest is forever losing 4 skillpoints is like saying that you decided not to upgrade all the blocks in your base and decided to go mining instead so you must have lost those points you would have gotten by upgrading. Both activities result in skillpoints so the points not earned by upgrading are earned by mining instead. No points are irrevocably lost just because you chose a different activity.
1 hour ago, theFlu said:All of these are simply the player choosing not to utilize 4 available skill points. That choice alone will practically never change a single action you take in the game. You clean the same POIs, you fight the same battles, you build the same base.
No. All of your examples are ridiculous caricatures of what I was saying. Beats me why you felt compelled to do so. You might see canceling the quest and having to find the first trader on your own as tedious and trivial and a meaningless annoyance but not everyone sees it that way. Not that it matters since it is purely an option that players can take if they wish. You keep doing the tutorial and I'll keep canceling it. No biggie.
1 hour ago, theFlu said:Now, if you include the trader marker into the mix, then yeah, there's a small difference if it happens to combine with terrible spawn luck. I don't pretend to know what the intent for spawning is, some RWG iterations have spawned you straight at the trader, most seem to have you spawn within shouting distance of a city, mostly with a trader attached. Only by horrible luck (as in, "very rarely") have I found myself in the middle of nowhere such that I've had to travel a lot to find the first trader. Usually there's at least a road to follow, which will lead me to one within the first day. High ground and maybe some nerdpoling will give good enough of a grasp of the surroundings if completely lost, even with the RWG iterations that forgot to make the roads. But even the worst case costs you a couple days of wandering in the wilderness; it's a neat change of pace, but overall a rather pointless experience. Your first week just has less days.
I know you don't care for the changes introduced in A21 so maybe you've been mostly playing A20 but I've noticed a change in the spawning points and from my experience it is rare that I end up right in front of a trader or even a city in A21. Nerdpoling isn't something I do but that is another of my choices that you would probably label needlessly tedious. You call two days of searching for civilization a neat change of pace but overall a pointless experience. I call it a nice variation to the game start compared to the tutorial quest + beeline to the trader game loop that happens every single restart in exactly the same way if you go that route.
And I guess I would ask you for the sake of understanding where you're coming from what you believe the point is for playing the game? What makes a two-day slower start where hunger and thirst may become critical all pointless to you? What is your objective that makes starting the game by canceling the quest "Pointless"? For me, it syncs perfectly for why I play the game and what I want to get out of it.
2 hours ago, theFlu said:They intentionally allow the players to be "OP"? I guess we disagree on the meaning of "overpowered" as well then. For me, that means something "essentially broken". Simply "powerful" would be a version that isn't broken.
The "button provided" seems to be intended as more of a "changed my mind, I want another quest instead" -function, rather than a difficulty tuning one. And for EA phase a "nvm this buggy mess that doesn't spawn, I'll just get on with my life" -function. It's there because removing it for a specific quest would be extra work - and there's no real reason to disable it.
Okay, I admit "OP" was too far. But you went too far on the "meaning" of the cancel quest button. It is not just an early access device to undo a mistake or avoid a glitched quest. Describing it that way helps your narrative which is why you are making up that story about the purpose of the cancel quest button. The button is provided to cancel any quest you don't want to do--including the tutorial quest. I know for a fact it was not added as simply an EA oopsie button.
2 hours ago, theFlu said:The claim I disagreed with was:
"The 4-point headstart and the trader beacon are designed for new players."
New players are just as able to disable the tutorial quest as the veterans are. If they want to.
The implementation does in no way indicate that you're "not supposed to" take advantage of it after certain experience. Claiming that that specific feature is "for newbies only" seems to stem from the fact that it happens to be a playstyle you prefer, and you see yourself as an experienced player, so, other experienced players must agree? Just a case of honest hubris?
So all of this was because you didn't like me claiming that the 4-points and trader beacon are for new players? You took it personally that I might be calling you a noob since you think the 4-point headstart and trader beacon are delicious? At least we are at the root of the aggression. Well, let me apologize for the unintended message of that statement. It wasn't meant as a "noob insult" toward anyone who likes to get the 4 points and the trader beacon. When I said that those rewards were meant for new players I said it because they are the rewards of doing the tutorial quest. "Tutorial" as in a tool to teach the game to new players. It's actually what the name of the quest means: You are doing this quest to literally learn the basics of the game ie doing a tutorial. I promise that that is where my claim stems. It is purely based on the meaning of the word tutorial and that in most games and otherwise a tutorial is designed for new players to learn the basics. It just seemed to me to follow logically that the rewards for doing that learning exercise would also be for new players. Experienced players would skip the tutorial in most cases where a tutorial was offered and if they skipped this game's tutorial they would also be starting the game from 0 skillpoints and no clear direction to the first trader.
I do prefer skipping the tutorial and believe the early game is better without the tutorial or its rewards and I wouldn't recommend brand new players to skip it while I do recommend experienced players to skip it but that's just sharing my own experience of fun like encouraging others to ride a rollercoaster that I liked. I'm really not stating that if you don't skip the tutorial you're not a true experienced player and I never said anyone must agree with me or they aren't experienced.
I agree that an experienced player can do the tutorial and take the rewards and a beginning player can cancel the turorial and forego the rewards. Neither of those cases negate the fact that the opening quest is a tutorial which by its very nature is something designed for new players which also means that the fruit of that same tree is also designed for new players.
Do the opening quest if you want.Noob.
j/k
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2 hours ago, theFlu said:
All right, everything you can do, is designed gameplay? When's the last session you repeatedly mined for stone to toss it away a pebble at a time with the awesome stone toss mechanic, until you died of hunger? That's designed gameplay, and a great challenge, I'm sure.
Or maybe it's not. Maybe I mean something a little different. I find it hard to believe that TFP would've implemented this system towards the design goal that "experienced players will not have those 4 skill points". You can do it, but the game doesn't disable it for you, now does it even give a verbal suggestion towards it. If it's designed as such, the Implementation does Not match the stated design.
I see my example a bit differently than just doing some inane task repeatedly just because it’s allowed. People are asking to be able to skip the tutorial quest and TFP has provided the answer: Hit the cancel button. A button for skipping any quest is already part of the game.
I get what you’re saying about there being no formal communication to the player that skipping the tutorial quest is the intended option for experienced players. Then again, they do provide a button for it and the name of the quest is “Tutorial” so it kind of seems obvious.
If you want stone then hit the buttons provided to mine stone. If you want to skip a quest hit the buttons provided to skip the quest.
2 hours ago, theFlu said:I would assume I did, as you're quoting me speaking of it. Why did I do it? Because it's a higher class of "reducing your skill point gain", it entirely covers your case of "reducing your skill points by 4", and is a little more difficult challenge, but completely feasible in the current implementation. It's essentially a claim that the challenge provided by -4 is rather negligible, thus I don't consider it "stupid". I just consider it "not intended gameplay".
If you say so. I’m not sure that canceling a quest and thus forfeiting the reward is the same as voluntarily never spending any skill points but just at a lower degree. Canceling the quest and not getting the 4points isn’t the same as foregoing the 4 points and never spending them. You are still going to get the 4 points and spend them— just by other means.2 hours ago, theFlu said:If TFP agreed, they surely would have disabled the starter quest for anything above normal difficulty?
That’s one assumption. Another is that they allow players to make the choice of doing the quest or canceling it using the provided button to do so. I could just as easily say that if they disagreed they surely by now would have included a no tutorial start where you still get 4 free points and they never have.
2 hours ago, theFlu said:I take the points and the compass marker, with my few thousand hours in the game; not because I need them, but because they're essentially trivial anyway. Removing either doesn't change anything, at worst it makes the run to your first trader take a couple minutes longer due to lack of cardio and horrible spawn luck.
Have you actually tried it or are you speaking from hypotheticals? I invite you to try a standard start and cancel the tutorial quest. It definitely increases the variability of your start. Sometimes it is trivial if you find the trader right away. But there have also been games where I didn’t find the trader for a few days. It’s not a huge challenge but it isn’t so trivial as you are making it out to be. If it were then more people would do it to avoid the tutorial. When you have people doing a tutorial quest they despise all to get 4 points and a trader beacon then you know it isn’t so trivial in their eyes.0 -
1 hour ago, theFlu said:
Something is this line of argument is a little off. Mainly "is designed" .. maybe it's designed as something, but for now the implementation fails to deliver a difference between new/experienced. Thus making that claim about its design is outside the scope of things we can experience.
The implementation absolutely does deliver a difference between new/experienced. It’s called opening the quest menu and canceling the tutorial quest. Canceling a quest is something any experienced player knows how to do and if they do it the game will deliver a significantly different experience. The four points is pretty trivial since they are very easy to gain through normal play but not automatically knowing where the trader is makes the early game much more challenging unless you guess the right direction to start walking. Since this can all be enacted within the game using the existing UI buttons to cancel the quest in exactly the same way all quests may be canceled it is part of the game design.
2 hours ago, theFlu said:Can we play the game without ever spending a skill point? Yes. Not exactly a problem.
Who said anything about never spending skill points? I said that instead of getting the 4 skill points from doing the tutorial you earn them by playing the game. You still get the points and can spend them.
2 hours ago, theFlu said:But as long as the game doesn't actually remove the "newbie-buffs", we have to assume the skill system is designed and balanced With those points, not without them. Not that the balancing is even able to be strict enough to really care about 4 points, at best it'd become a question of how much cheese is ideal.
I agree that the four points is trivial so I doubt the game becomes unbalanced because you started the game from 0 instead of 4. For an experienced player it is still simplicity to stay ahead of the game’s difficulty curve even with such a slow start. I’ve certainly not noticed any bad balance against me by forgoing the points and I started skipping the tutorial quest years ago.
2 hours ago, theFlu said:Then again, the starter quest - especially the current streamlined version - takes about a minute, so the "jumping thru the hoops" -claim is rather mundane in itself. It costs you a couple pebbles and splinters, just spam thru it to get going.. consider it testing out the controls for your new session...
And that’s part of why, as an experienced player, I don’t do it. It’s too weak of a task for the rewards of 4 skill points and a free gps to the nearest trader. The start of game freebies are too OP for anyone but a newbie.
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maybe the best solution would be to treat everything at game start as optional new player tools that could be toggled:Starting food & water. On/off
Starting tutorial. On/off
4-point head start. On/off
First trader beacon. On/off
Debuff Immunity On/Off
people could choose which items they wanted and it wouldn’t be set up like a quest and rewards.
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22 hours ago, WarMongerian said:
Folks are talking like the choice is to:
1) do the quest, and get the 4 skill points, or
2) opt out of the quest, and not get those 4 points.
Yes, because that's how all quests in the game work. Do the job and get the reward. Have you tried canceling the quest and just starting from zero points and earning those four points playing how you want and finding the trader on your own? I think it is far superior to doing the quest anyway.
The 4-point headstart and the trader beacon are designed for new players. Experienced players should easily be able to handle the challenge of starting from 0 points and searching for the trader on their own.
As an experienced player why do you feel you need a 4-point headstart and guidance to the trader?
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39 minutes ago, Matt115 said:
Ok so i have alternative which would both shoes and partialy barefoot : just change skin into fiber. I think it's sensible alternative to flip flops
I like that alternative a lot but I'm also not against flip flops. With the set already completed, I doubt they will take time to redo the footwear since they most likely like the flip flops at least as much as the style you shared.
Besides, we know they only redo entire gameplay systems not single items.
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3 hours ago, FranticDan said:
MU Online has a set bonus if you're wearing an entire set (Head, Torso, Legs, Hands, Feet), if the set itself is a high enough level to start granting a set bonus.
Example: If all of your armour pieces are 'Dragon Armour' and the level of the Dragon Armour set is level +10 or higher, you get an armour bonus. Removing any of the pieces will remove the bonus.
(Bare in mind I haven't played MU Online in over a decade, so things may have changed)
So you're agreeing with me then. I wasn’t sure before.
From what has been described, this game will be similar. If you wear all the pieces from the farmer set you will get the bonus each piece grants plus a set bonus. Remove one piece and you lose the set bonus and the individual bonus of that piece but still get the bonuses of the other pieces you are wearing.
If you wear pieces from different sets you get each of their individual bonuses but no set bonus.
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1 hour ago, FranticDan said:
MU Online has an armour set bonus if your entire armour pieces are a high enough level, last I played, I think the set bonus maxed to a +30% armour rating bonus
How does this contradict what I've been saying?
I'll admit right now that my statement was hyperbole. I don't really know if there is a game that grants an entire set bonus when you aren't wearing the entire set. But so far the two examples people have posted as alleged counterpoints don't seem to be such. I'm sure someone will dredge up a game that really does but in any case it must be a rare exception. The label itself: "Set bonus" presupposes that it is a bonus that is granted by equipping the entire set. Why call it a set bonus if you can get the bonus sans a piece or two?
And I still maintain that "barefoot" will never count as an armor piece or clothing article for any kind of set that includes footwear as one of the categories for the set. That's just ridiculous....
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I vote for young goats with a zombie version so we can finally have zombie kids in the game.
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41 minutes ago, NukemDed said:
ummmmm sorry roland. one of the diablo iterations (2?) had stacking bonuses where the gear got better and better with each piece of the set you wore, and then there was an overall bonus. partial set bonuses as well as the complete set bonus. it meant you could mix and match 2 or even 3 different sets and enjoy perks as you built the sets. decisions like should i loose this set bonus on the wizard getup to get the bonus on the assassin setup. sometimes it was worth using only 3/5 of set A and the rest from set B to get special mixes of bonuses.
here we go
Arcanna's Tricks
- Partial Set Bonus
+50 To Mana (2 Items)
+50 To Life (3 Items)
Regenerate Mana 12% (3 Items)- Complete Set Bonus
+50 To Mana
+50 To Life
20% Faster Cast Rate
5% Mana Stolen Per Hit
+1 to All Skills
No need for sorrow. Nothing you shared refutes what I said. Diablo won’t grant the full set bonus if you are only wearing part of the set. It gives a partial set bonus.
Same in this game. Wear everything but the shoes and you’ll get the partial bonuses of what you’re wearing but not the full set bonus unless you don those flip flops.
I said that no game gives the full set bonus for wearing a partial set and the fact that Diablo has partial set bonuses shows that it also doesn’t give the full set bonus if you aren’t wearing the full set.
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Great. Now the thumbnail picture for this thread is animal kingdom. @Crater Creator your newest job description is going to be to repost the A22 montage picture every time someone posts any other pic…lol
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2 hours ago, Matt115 said:
Yes - it's oldest yet... going barefoot from own choice is popular too. I could make long lecture about that topic + kinda wearing such mask looks more like spiritual stuff - similiar like Children of the forest from metro exodus. So go barefoot would have sense here
But without crafting it you won't get set bonus. So... pretty force you to craft it
C’mon Matt. It’s a bonus for wearing the entire set. There is no game in existence that rewards a set bonus without the entire set. “Barefoot” isn’t a set piece and never will be. It’s the absence of a set piece and you’re just not going to convince anyone on the dev team or otherwise to pretend that (set-1) cuts it for the set bonus. Neither is anyone going to pretend that barefoot counts as an outfit set piece any more than they would count barechested or bareheaded. We’re not playing Emperor’s New Clothes Simulator. No clothes is no clothes.3 -
The developers have been moving mountains to get the game optimized enough to run on Xbox and Playstation. I don't think they'll be able to move worlds to get it to run on Switch.
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4 minutes ago, beerfly said:
Rooting for this such as you. But would be better for the devs to mend the game properly around or after gold to implement it.
And I hope they don`t make us move our hand with the controller as in real life when mining.
How else am I supposed to achieve my move points for the day and close my ring?
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Banked turn for a race track, is it possible?
in General Discussion
Posted
FYI-- I tested out the terrain shaping tool and couldn't make the terrain blocks into a smooth curved bank. Individual voxels stubbornly refused to smooth out. But perhaps I just suck at using the tool.