bloodmoth13

We definitely need a variety of zombies to accomplish different roles. Hunter zombies to seek out the most direct path to player, generic shambles that have a16 ai and maybe a couple of others. The only problem with tfps approach to solving zombie ai is that they do a one size fits all approach, having different levels of zombie intelligence would make it harder to exploit all zombies. Nothing worse than expecting zombies at your front door but they are bashing every other area instead so you have to leave your main kill room to deal with the rest. I miss gore blocks that would allow zeds to effectively build a ladder up to the player, if they could do a mountain of corpses thing that could be great, mountain of corpses like ants is pretty iconic zombie stuff Try make riskier horde bases or harder difficulty and set some rules like cobblestone only, no traps, no bombs etc. The most fun I have is when the zeds breakthrough my first line of defenses and I need to fall back.

I'm happy with the lumberjack. I think the variety of zombies is very good now along with how they can fit into most environments. I do think they need to do a pass on skin tones though, the crawler needs a little work with its guts being jagged, also it's very pale in comparison to the socialite zombie which looks healthy other than the blood

No prob for me, I'm shooting things just for the sake of burning through stacks. Id really like workbenches to be available without schematic and for everyone to be able to craft ammo and make that a staple part of the game.

Literally all it needs is to follow you one block higher. Thats it. out of line of sight for zombies. i fixed the game where is my award

I stand corrected, the comedy throw has some uses. I think a min throw that matches the stam cost or a regular power attack that keeps the spear in hand.

I have though of that too, but I think just making a right click tap do a power thrust without releasing and removing the useless levels of throw should accomplish all that is needed. It saves having to fuss with the radial dial. For that matter though I also think it would be cool to throw knives with the same method, and I don't mind if it's a radial dial or charge to throw. Daggers could definitely use a longer range attack for stealth kills

It just needs a right click to do a regular slow power attack with holding it doing a throw. Dropping the spear at your feet isn't doing anyone any favors

I really like spears for their reach, the power attack though is very awkward. I'd like tapping right click to do a regular power attack that doesn't drop your weapon while charging it will throw it. Fists are great, been ages since I used sledges, knives felt weak when using them and stun baton feels useless without the lightning but fully modded is absolutely insane. Haven't ever done clubs, I know they are good but I just don't care for them, will try them one day though...

Yeah i thought it was pretty good when trying it but i never used clubs so didnt have any reference, after comparing stats i realized that it was actually just a reskinned wooden club :/ It functions nice enough but it doesnt currently belong in the game as is and needs to fit into its own niche.

old fertilizer required poo, my fertilizer has farmable nitrate, bone and rotten meat, which seems fairly abundant and replenishes with zombie dogs, vultures and zombie bears, or rotten piles on the ground, so it shouldnt be too hard to get imo. With fertilizer your farm size would by necessity be much smaller, currently you are limited almost only by how many plots you can put seeds into (provided LotL3) with my system you would only use as many plots as you could realistically fertilize, so in some ways it would be more work (in general it would, but i think that is fine as a cost for producing food) but in others it would make infinite sized farms less realistic. I did consider unfertilized farms only providing 1 crop per harvest with 3 harvests per seed which would be inefficient but i decided that the effort of harvesting 3 times for one meager crop is enough of a cost to justify it. A self sustaining farm of only unfertilized crops would be a nightmare for upkeep as it would take 15 harvests to get one more seed, by the time you get a self sustaining farm that is profitable from only farming you will be weeks into the game looting at least t3 PoIs so i think it is justified.

Thanks for taking a look and giving feedback, appreciate that. Might need to look into modding so I don't just go on about ideas that nobody can try. I like spoilage as a concept but I feel like it would only work on single player, imagine playing on a public server and your food supplies are all destroyed because you couldn't play for a week. It's a difficult problem to solve because I really like the idea of advancing cooking with working fridges, ovens and tinning stations

I dont think food spoilage would fix all the issues, but it sure as hell would make things super clunky and likely force really bad gaming habits where the game decides when you play it instead of the other way around. Having to build a fridge and a canning station though would thematically feel like good milestones for the game, and being able to craft tinned food would be cool. I think i like the concept of it far more than i would like the reality of it. The only problem with farming imo is that there is simply no cost for producing large quantities of food, the only cost is set up costs and meager perk investment and you have pretty much infinite food. With fertilizer as a secondary cost you need to balance how much fertilizer you have with seeds, so turning your 100 corn into 20 seeds if you can only craft 10 fertilizer would be wasteful, and it would also put pressure on only focusing on the most needed crops rather than everything and you would be trading resources from glue and gunpowder and whatever recipes use rotten meat.

Well read my original post beyond that point, skip to my 'solution' and see if you agree. My goal is to have seeds go back to being profitable (they cost time already that should be enough) but just barely, and shifting the profitability to fertilizer, which add ongoing cost to replenishing food stocks. I agree that food shouldnt be overly abundant but it needs to be accessible as playing the game with zero food is just painful, but forcing a player to focus on getting food over weapons or building material should be enough.

You didn't read op did you? I suggest you do because my solution was never reverting to old alphas. Lotl3 is free infinite food that removes food economy, my suggestion fixed that by requiring a constant cost for farming that requires harvesting other materials I don't want infinite food though, read op. I want early game seed economy to make sense for players that don't have living off the land, and I want an ongoing cost for efficient farming. Farming is broken without living off the land as seeds cost more than they produce and are a trap investment. Also once you have living off the land food is beyond sustainable and it is very easy to have free infinite food, which means hunger is never a danger. Having a cost for good harvests means capping how much excess food you can create.

Those resources are used elsewhere, you would be trading glue and gunpowder for fertilizer, and if you are already swimming in those materials I highly doubt that food scarcity is an issue in your game. It's still not free, food needs to be available but not too abundant and the healthiest way to control that is to make it take time and or resources to create. It has a cost it's not free, you are trading one resource for another, it is a dishonest statement that is equivalent to saying that food is free at the traders because you are collecting dukes anyway. Food scarcity shouldn't be an issue if you are doing t5s

So you think food should be more scarce but infinite free food from one point in living off the land is perfectly fine? I just don't understand this mindset! Currently it's very easy to get infinite free food like everyone keeps reminding me with 1 point in living off the land. THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM I am not advocating infinite free food with little investment, I want efficient farming to cost fertilizer which takes existing valuable materials and requires them to get decent returns. Living off the land gets you tons of food for no cost which just deletes food scarcity. Fertilizer removes food scarcity at an ongoing cost that scales with your farm size. Making seeds cost efficient off the bat might seem like I'm advocating free infinite food but if you really think getting 6 crops from 5 and 3 harvests over, what, 6 hours is going to remove all of your food problems I really don't think you understand what I am suggesting. That will almost never remove your food problems in the game, but it will make seeds profitable for desperate players.

Fertilizer isn't free though! You are turning one resource into another, if you can't farm fertilizer materials you are not getting bonuses, which means trading time and resources for food, which is exactly what the cost for food should be. There is still a cost that you seem to be intentionally ignoring, you can't grow bones, nitrate and rotten meat in a farm plot, you still need to loot or harvest them

The a20 changes didn't fix the infinite food problem it merely made farming broken for anyone without living off the land. My idea fixes infinite food as a problem without breaking farming initially. Getting one free crop after 3 harvests from 1 seed isn't a realistic infinite supply of food, but it is at least profitable. The cost of fertilizer to make those harvests profitable which comes from sources that need to be looted or harvested offsets the bonuses to harvesting as you are not creating resources from nothing but rather turning inedible resources into edible ones. This would likely be a nerf to overall food supplies but a buff to early game food creation without making it inefficient

Its not comparable at all! Turning crops to seeds loses crops. It's an inefficient system, it would be like mining having a 50% chance for you to lose ore from you bag, if that was the case mining would be considered broken, and at no point did I suggest removing harvest bonus perks to LotL, you still get bonuses you just need to use fertilizer which is a limiting material.

You like a20 farming as is? Is that with perk investment or without? Because without investment crafting seeds will generally lose you food whereas with lotl it's just the same as A19 with infinite food and nothing actually changed

That just shows me that the other sources are too lucrative and not that farming is. Farming is the only source that really requires investing time and resources and it's the only source players have direct control over. Maybe you missed how my idea would work, if you don't use fertilizer then you are only gaining 1 bonus crop after 3 harvests regardless of lolt, relying only on that would take forever to build up free food and honestly wouldn't be worth the effort, but crafting fertilizer would increase the yield which would cost other valuable resources. The system would require the and investment for imo a fair return. That is what the cost of reliable food should be. You getting lucky looting tons of food and getting it cheap from other sources has nothing to do with my idea, farming NEEDS to be functional which it isn't till investing in LotL right now. That is with lotl though wasn't it? And with investment it basically turns back into free infinite food which imo was something that needed to be fixed as I outlined in op. And imo the system needs to be functional without skill investment, perks need to feel good but not mandatory. With LotL farming is basically à19 farming with more steps as there is still infinite free food. So hearing that it is good with LotL at any investment doesn't really change anything as it doesn't fix the problem of free infinite food or being viable without point investment. My problem was never that it wasn't lucrative but that actively putting effort into farming without perks is detrimental to food supply and investment in perks just reverts changes back to free infinite food.

The system is fine but it does need some rebalancing. I think treasure hunter and the lockpicking perk could easily be merged as they are both far too niche to really be playstyles. I think forge and workbench need to be basic recipes that are always known, the limiter should be resources not luck or just picking int. I think salvaging and grease monkey should be merged and put in the int tree, as crafting skills feel bad if that's all they offer and cost reduction for something that you will likely only ever craft once feels bad. I think every branch needs one harvesting skill, int can have salvaging, strength mining, agi should have pelting, endurance has LotL and perception I guess has lucky looter. Less lucrative harvesting skills should get some other bonuses too like randomly harvesting a valuable item that you can sell at a trader (thinking of pelting specifically, you could harvest trophy heads that sell for good coin at the traders since bones and leather have a limited amount of uses)

How is my suggestion maximizing profit without investing skill points? Living off the land will increase yields and lower the cost of farming. You will not get max profit without it. My suggestion makes the absolute baseline of farming functional and works as an introduction to the system. You build a plot, plant a seed, put on some fertilizer, harvest crops and profit. That is baseline farming, and the game needs the baseline to be functional. It would be like if melee weapons had a percent chance to hurt yourself Instead of the enemy and that only went away after investing into perks. Melee wouldn't be functional without investment, sure there are other ways to deal damage so the system isn't broken but that part absolutely is because without investment it is not functional. I think my suggestion is very fair, it stops food from being free, even at max lotl, and allows easier access to it. It removes the clunky barrier of entry while lowering the ceiling of infinite free crops. It's a good system that solves both issues that I outlined. If there is going to be a good food system it simply needs to be functional, and I don't think there is any real argument against that.

I do this all the time. If i kill all the zombies i will log out and log back in if i have the resources to continue.

The changes: In alpha 19 you could craft a seed from 5 crops and that would give you a self replenishing food source. At the start you would trade 5 immediate resources for recurring harvests. In alpha 20 you can craft a seed from 5 crops and that would give you one harvest of 2 crops and the chance at a bonus seed to repeat the process. The problem: The problem with farming in A19 was that once you got 5 of any crop you could create an infinite and exponential supply of crops, which undermined the survival aspect of the game. The solution in A20 was adding an element of randomness to harvesting which meant that there was more risk in building your infinite supply of crops. The problem with the A20 solution though was that farming became very inefficient. The cost of time for delayed resources should be enough of a price to pay for turning edible food into seeds for more resources, but instead we got the ability to turn 5 crops into 2 and the chance of another seed. I shouldnt need to explain why this is a bad deal. Yes, living off the land resolves this problem entirely, but it shouldnt be mandatory to engage in farming. Farming should be viable for other specializations, trading immediate resources for future investments. The solution: Any solution to this problem needs to provide a fix to the problem to not only the problem in A20, but also the problem in A19. So my goal is to deal with infinite cheap food while also allowing players to turn crops into seeds without reducing their total crop yield. To do this i propose a secondary resource for planting crops: fertilizer. The Recipe: Fertilizer will be crafted with bones, rotten meat, plant fibers and nitrate (as an example recipe, values are a balancing concern). Fertilizer will last for all 3 harvests per seed. Also seeds will replenish naturally twice per planting (seed can only be harvested back before first harvest, harvests after first will state that the crop is 'regrowing') So farming will look like this: Build a farming plot that will cost 10 wood and 50 clay, craft a seed for 5 crops, plant seed into plot. Without fertilizer the seed will provide 3 total harvests that will only yield 2 crop per harvest for a total of 6 crops for a net gain of 1 crop With fertilizer added after planting the seed, you will add +1 per harvest, increasing the yield to 9 crops total over 3 harvests for 1 seed for a net gain of 4 crops Living off the land will increase the harvest for fertilized crops by 1/2/3, and will also reduce the cost of fertilizer 10%/20%/40%. This would mean that to get the most out of your farms you would be required to invest other resources into your farm that have value elsewhere. Seeds will always net a +1 so seed economy is where it should be. Fertilizer will effectively Quadruple your returns from planting a seed as you will go from having 1 crop profit to 4. Bonus: Can we get a chicken coup that produces eggs please? The cost will be wood (frame), metal (wiring), plant fibers (hay) and 4 eggs (to hatch into chickens) chickens will only lay eggs if they have been fed, chickens can eat whatever crops you no longer need and turn them into eggs. It doesnt even need to be efficient, you could put 10 corn in for 1 egg and people would still build it just to be able to access replenishable and reliable eggs for recipes that need them.